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QUINN'S DAILY DOSE OF REALITY  »  Discussions

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I think it is honorable to pay down one's debt.  I don't see the issue with just getting people to pay down their credit card debts even if future interest rate charges are waived on the EXISTING debt.

For anyone who is serious about paying down existing credit card debt, (meaning they owe less overall than the month before), economists should be serious about advocating the COMPROMISE SOLUTION of people paying down what they owe, but no new taxes, er, interest rate charges on EXISTING credit card debt.

Will this hurt the banks, OF COURSE NOT.

Credit card defaults will DECREASE.  People will have more spendable money from their paychecks.  The additional money will actually work it's way into local economies all over the country. As the freed up money (money that people earned that is no longer going to simply pay a perpetual interest rate charge) is used to pay a local business for a product or service with CASH, (not on credit), the recipient of the money is able to use that money to either hire more people, meet existing payroll, increase inventory (which means work for someone else) or, to pay down their own debts.

Inevitably, no matter which path the freed up money takes, the money ends up back at the bank anyways in the form of SOMEBODY paying down some of their own debts, however, the difference is the money FIRST circulated in the local economy BEFORE it went back to the banks.

The banks STILL get their monthly credit card payment and won't feel the actual "loss" of interest rate charges for SEVERAL YEARS. Only when the debt drops significantly and the credit card payments actually drop might the banks notice, but by then, a reinvigorated local economy, increased savings, and more people working and lower default rates, will simply out muster any loss in interest rate charges. 

Otherwise, just what was the purpose of the bailout money, to simply further enslave people with more and more debt as the cash for clunkers program did?

TheBurningPlatform.com - StuckInNJ
StuckInNJ
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When I saw the title, "Fingers of Instability", I immediately thought of this picture;

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So cows can start fires.

TheBurningPlatform.com - Thunderbird
Thunderbird
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Interesting read. Reading about the sandpile game and reaching the critical state (in relation to the economy and debt) the thought came to me about the jubilee as talked about in Leviticus Chapter 25 in the Holy Bible. For those that don't know, this is a forgiveness of debt every 50 years. Maybe the ancients knew and practiced something we have forgotten about over the generations. Maybe they knew from experience, that critical state that builds over time and this was their way to defuse it.

The jubile was a yearlong period observed by the jews once every 50 years, during which Jewish slaves were to be freed, alienated lands were to be restored to the original owner or his heir, the fields were to be left untilled, and all agricultural labors were to be suspended. Hmmmm, we must be past the 50 year cycle of the last depression and current events seem to be driving us to a culmination of this credit based system that was created during the Roosevelt Administration when we went off the gold standard. Maybe nature is forcing us to a point of collapse so all debt can be discharged. Maybe we are fighting this natural cycle by us trying to save and pay down debt - and the government putting the people into deeper into bondage by piling on more debt.

I think we should consider following the natural flow. And what is nature saying? Look at all the dwellings that have been built across the land. Look at all the development of natural resources we have. Look at all the tilled fields and cows on the land. Is this a picture of poverty? No. It is a picture of abundance. 

What is spoiling this picture in our minds? Debt! It is time to throw it off of our backs. The remedy? discharge it. There is no money. It cannot be paid down or off without money. I think the critical mass that is getting ready to be released can be handled because it is a fiction that can be discharged. The sooner the better.  

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Food for thought, Thunderbird.

Can you point to any references in the Bible, or to any external records that show the Year of Jubilee was ACTUALLY observed?  I'd be surprised if you can. This was a "in a perfect world" conceptual idea which was never actually implemented. Notice I said 'implemented', not merely observed with certain rituals.

The word debt is never actually mentioned in Lev 25 ... although a case can be made that it's implied.

Jubilee was given by God to a specific nation, Israel, not the USA.

Verse 23 is key, as I understand it;  "The land shall not be sold in perpetuity, for the land IS MINE." Soooo …

…. since the land belongs to God, it does not belong to the Jews, and neither does it belong to the current inhabitants. No one but God owns the land. Humans, in a very real sense, can only LEASE the land for the specified period of time, and then it reverts to the previous owner ..... God.  Jubilee is closely connected to the very complex and various Covenants God established with His people, the Jews. So, this is all a very nice and convenient way to justify evicting the current owners of the land (non-Jews), the land is returned to God, and God executes actual possession via his chosen people. Nice deal if you can get it!    A short hand version is this; "Hey, you foreigners, get out. God owns this land and we are his agents so, in reality, we own it. We're moving in tomorrow."

Do you really want to interpret all of the Leviticus passage literally?  If so, then you better get ready to move out of your house. I think the original owner of your land is some Native American guy name Chief Me Evict You. I don't imagine farmers would be too thrilled with letting the ground lay fallow for the year .... and neither would those of us who like to eat.

Lastly, as the saying goes, the devil is in the details --- a minor detail Leviticus leaves out. Just one example;  if all debts are forgiven in the 50th year, I am going to live REALLY LARGE in year 49.  I’m buying a McMansion, a Ferrari, a Rolex and a whole bunch of other stuff on credit.  Oh yeah … jubilation in New Jersey!! On the other hand, would any bank in the country even lend me or anyone else even a dime knowing they’re going to get “Jubileed” (the new f-word) in the following year?

Listen, don’t get me wrong, the concept sounds real nifty. How wouldn’t want all their debts released? But, from a practical standpoint …. It ain’t never gonna happen

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