Wal-Mart, the biggest corporation in the world, told Green Day they would not carry their new CD unless they took out the 5 times in 17 songs where they used the word F***. Green Day refused. BRAVO Green Day. I believe in free speech.
So let me get this straight. As the CEO of Wal-Mart is driving into work and gets cut off, he yells "you f***ing idiot", when a Senior Vice President shows him a report and he asks, "Who the F*** ordered 10 million Chia Obamas?" and when the waiter in the Wal-Mart Corporate Dining Room brings him his filet mignon and he yells. "I ordered this F***ing rare", it is OK to use the word F***.
It's a business. Their choice. But, this is how it starts. I'm guessing you won't find Catcher in the Rye on their book rack either. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. That was bad, so we should ban books about them. Next is the book burning, then CD burning, then banning websites that disagree with government policy, then internment camps.
Once you let the corporate fascists and government fascists hang the 1st person, the Hangman's gallows grows ever larger until it is too late.
Green Day to Wal-Mart: F*** Censorship
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| Moral Crusaders? Green Day |
As reported by the Associated Press last Thursday (and picked up by outlets coast-to-coast, including the Chron and the Washington Post), Green Day frontman Billie Joe Armstrong said the band decided to "just say no" to Wal-Mart's policy of not selling any CD with a Parental Advisory sticker (signifying explicit lyrical content).
In the past, Wal-Mart has required popular artists to submit edited versions of their albums, sometimes completely altering their context, as in the case of Nirvana, whose social commentary "Rape Me" because the somewhat more innocuous "Waif Me."
"You feel like you're in 1953 or something," Armstrong remarked - a reference to the McCarthy era, when the House Unamerican Activities Committee engaged in witchhunts against liberals, suspected Communists, and anyone else who didn't pass muster with the Morality Police.
So what is the controversial content, exactly? According to the AP, it's "curses and some references considered adult," which Armstrong said he doesn't consider "dirty."
In saying no to Wal-Mart, Green Day could be setting a trend in more ways than one. In its first week of release, 21st Century Breakdown sold 215,000 units--a healthy figure, especially in this economy. With a major American tour planned for the summer, that figure will almost certainly rise exponentially, yet Wal-Mart won't profit from Green Day's popularity. In fact, fans in heartland areas who normally go to Wal-Mart for their music needs may turn in large numbers to the Internet to purchase their copy of 21st Century Breakdown -- or they could just go to another chain-store retailer without a censorship policy, like Target.
In addition, in refusing to play by Wal-Mart's rules, Green Day are setting a major precedent for artists and making a huge statement against censorship in any way, shape or form. Parental Advisory stickers became part of the pop culture landscape due to the efforts of the PMRC back in the late '80s, ostensibly to help parents shield children from offensive lyrics and questionable content. Campaigning against offensive lyrics became a common practice of family value crusaders with conservative political agendas. But PA stickers didn't prevent the Colombine tragedy from happening, and may have actually spurred the sales of gangsta rap. "Dirty" versions of albums generally sell much more units than "clean" versions, and indie labels have been known to affix PA stickers on their product for this reason.
This move by Green Day attacks the "American Idiot" mentality which has allowed for hypocrisy on an ideological basis; despite their Christian sensibilities, Wal-Mart is the nation's largest seller of guns. And it's been somewhat of a PR coup for the band, drawing viral attention to the album, and in doing so forcing the mainstream media and the blogosphere to question Wal-Mart's practices.
While Green Day appears to be doing just fine without Wal-Mart--last week they appeared on David Letterman, the Colbert Report, Good Morning America, and CBS Sunday AM, with upcoming appearances on the Tonight Show and Carson Daly--the real beneficiaries of their anti-censorship middle finger may be smaller bands who might be encouraged to speak their minds rather than muzzle their thoughts--especially if they happen to be political. Score another one for freedom of expression.
77 Comments
michaelj007
It only takes a spark to start a fire.
avalon
I don't consider it censorship - more like Walmart has standards and it shouldn't have to sell something it deems offensive. It's a free country right? Walmart should be allowed to sell what it wants. I don't think using the "F" word is ever really necessary in expressing feeling through music.
TheHousingGuru
This has nothing to do with freedom of speech; it's a business decision by a private enterprise deciding what they are willing to sell in THEIR business. They haven't dictated that the music--and I use the term loosely--can't be heard, just that they don't want to put it in their stores; and they have a perfect right to do so. What is far more dangerous is the desire to dictate what private enterprise can do--an encroachment already being made by government. We all censor every day. We decide what we will or will not hear, see, or do. To encourage banning the ability of private enterprise to determine just how their business can be run is not only dangerous, it violates the very principles the writer is advocating.
Skyprince
Although I believe both WalMart and Green Day should be able to do as they wish on this issue, I think WalMart, being a huge retailer, has a responsibility to tread lightly here. They are so big, it tends toward censorship. Having said that though....they each can do what they please as far as I'm concerned. I don't have to buy Green Day's music if it offends me, and I don't have to shop at WalMart either (unless I live in Bumf$#@, Arkansas and they are the only retailer around), in which case it certainly looks more like censorship to me. The FCC deciding on what is appropriate and what isn't bothers me far, far more. Your trash talk is my music and that's okay.
Freesmith
The word "censorship" is being mis-used here.
You can only have censorship if the government is involved. Otherwise, all you have is private preference, which is also known as freedom.
It's the same with the word "monopoly:" a monopoly can only exist if the government is a party to it.
If you doubt that, name one where it isn't true.
JimQ
The definition of censorship in the dictionary ( no mention of government):
1. suppression of published or broadcast material: the suppression of all or part of a play, movie, letter, or publication considered offensive or a threat to security
2. suppression of something objectionable: the suppression or attempted suppression of something regarded as objectionable
3. ancient Roman office: the office, authority, or term of an ancient Roman censor
Anyone can censor anything. The government does not need to be involved. The government didn't force people to burn books back in the 1950's. Anyone with power has the ability to censor. The mainstream media wouldn't print my articles. That may or may not be censorship. It is a fine line.
Wal-Mart is a business that made a choice. Normally this would not be a big deal. With annual sales of $400 billion, bigger than the GDP of most countries, Wal-Mart has an inordinant amount of power. This is a slippery slope. Will Wal-Mart insist that their suppliers have a certain percentage of carbs in their food because they want their fat customers to slim down. Obama is going to force us to drive small cars.
It starts with seemingly minor changes, and the gallows grow.
Freesmith
"Epater des bourgeois" Now there's a new concept.
These Green Day boys are very original.
They say "fuck" and "Bush is an idiot." Wow! I'm impressed.
I bet they also believe that we should all be nice to people, and that religion is stupid.
It's not that they're wrong; it's that they're insipid.
I have a word of caution for them, however, one that they would be wise to heed.
It's all very well to play the outre rebel, Green Day, especially when playing that role advances you both commercially and within your peer group. But don't go thinking too far out of that box.
The people who are eager to usurp power in this society are more than happy to grant us anarchic individualism in return for the levers of real control. Personal license is the new opiate of the masses. Green Day can sing "fuck" in every song, pierce their eyebrows, snort cocaine, scream that they want to be free and leave a trail of bastards in their wake. That's great. But they better not question the Saviour in the White House, not anymore, nor why half of their fans can't find jobs and have graduated from high school with eighth grade educations.
About stuff like that - and other things that posters on the Burning Platform could easily list - Green Day had better shut their fucking mouths, if they know what's good for them.
And they will.
The "rebels."
JimQ
Wow.
You are really angry at Green Day. They are 37 years old, married with kids. The lead singer has been married for 15 years to the same woman. In his spare time, he works for Habitat for Humanity. His dad drove a truck for Safeway and died when Billie Joe was 10. Their song Wake Me Up When September Ends is about his Dad who died in September.
You are quite the judge and jury. My post wasn't about Green Day. It was about censorship and its danger.
Do you favor banning Catcher in the Rye from Libraries, Wal-Marts, Barnes and Noble? That book has much more offensive dialogue than a Green day song.
J Jo
Wal-Mart does not have to carry any item they deem offensive or inappropriate; however, if they are censoring Green Day then they are going to have to censor half of all the books, CDs, and video games that they sell (assuming their only objection is the f word). Wal-Mart does not have the lock on the music distribution market; therefore, free will should apply to it also. You can't just pick and choose who is subject to free will. No one has to shop at Wal-Mart and no one has to buy Green Day.
rknowles
So I usually don't comment, but you hit one of my sensitive areas with this one Jim. Walmart is absolutely ridiculous when it comes to this crap.
Let's get this straight... I can't buy a Green Day album at Walmart because it has 5 f-words on the entire album??
Yet I can go to the very next aisle and buy a season of the Soprano's on DVD which averages 52.5 f-words PER EPISODE! At 13 episodes per season we're talkin' about roughly 680 f-words!
Oh and in the next aisle I can pick up a copy of Grand Theft Auto where I get to shoot innocent people, steal cars and beat hookers with a baseball bat cause I didn't want to pay for the sex.
I also loved Walmart's TV commercial this past Christmas season where they advertised the video game "Rock Band" by showing a whole family rocking out together including two children: one of which was no more than 7 years old, and the other no more than 11. Then at the end of the commercial they point out "Rock Band rated T for Teen".
Unbelievable...
JimQ
Let's see. 70% of the products sold at Wal-Mart are made in China. The factories in China have unsafe working conditions, employ child labor, pollute the water and atmosphere, and pay slave wages. If Wal-Mart was a true corporate citizen, they would refuse to buy from China. But guess what, they choose to do it for profit.
They pick and choose which battles to fight based on the good old bottom line. When you choose one immoral thing because it is more profitable, you're a hypocrite.
Wal-Mart decides to pick this fight with Green Day because they can use it as PR to the religious right that they are a good Christian company. Ryan is 1000% correct. This is pure and simple self serving censorship. If they pulled everything that was offensive, their profits would plummet.
JimQ
Hmm. What is more dangerous in the hands of an angry teenager? A shotgun or a Green Day CD that uses a naughty word?
avalon
Exactly, It's their decision. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Like you said Freesmith, we have the right to choose not to shop there if we don't like their tactics.
Oops, I meant to submit this as a reply to Freesmiths comment that was a reply to my comment that was a reply to Jim's comment.
JimQ
Art and vulgarity are in the eye of the beholder. Green Day should be able to sing about whatever they want, not what you would prefer them to sing about. JD Salinger should be able to write whatever he wants. Michaelangelo painted nude women. Some might consider it vulgar.
Free speech is the ultimate liberty.
Daniel
I love these Green Day debates! Sure beats fighting back the bigots on the Iran thread. Funny, Green Day's wandering lyrics are strangely similar to Friar Hilarius' posts. I'm not a Green Day fan. Can't listen to E chords being hammered at my brain over and over again. Jim, I tried. I really really tried. But they just sound, well, tired. I feel the same way about Rage Against the Machine - lots of well to do middle class, raging against...something...ANYTHING...PLEASE! Now that Bush is gone, I wonder who the next pin cushion will be?
Walmart has shareholders. They don't need picketing parents - their bread and butter customers. I don't agree with censorship (one of my favorite albums is Frank Zappa, Joe's Garage) but there is a fine line between that and then telling enterprises what to hock. Jim, let me ask you this: should Walmart sell that album with the band of 2 blond cute Nazis railing about white power?
JimQ
Well Daniel, it doesn't appear that Wal-Mart's high standards are too high. Below can all be purchased at your friendly neighborhood Wal-Mart. You can buy your PS3 game, get yourself worked up after killing 5,000 people on-line, listen to a little Eminem singing some old Frank Sinatra tunes, then go get the semi-automatic gun you purchased at Wal-Mart and start shooting at the teenagers next door playing their Green Day CD too loud.
JimQ
Just a little background on the recording artists that Wal-Mart is gladly selling. CAN ANYONE SPELL HYPOCRITICAL OUT THERE?
Curtis James Jackson III (born July 6, 1975),[1] better known by his stage name 50 Cent, is an American rapper. He rose to fame with the release of his albums Get Rich or Die Tryin' (2003) and The Massacre (2005). Both albums achieved multi-platinum success, selling over twenty-one million copies combined.[2]
Born in South Jamaica, Queens, 50 Cent began drug dealing at the age of twelve during the 1980s crack epidemic.[3] After leaving drug dealing to pursue a rap career, he was shot nine times in 2000. After releasing his album Guess Who's Back? in 2002, 50 Cent was discovered by rapper Eminem and signed to Interscope Records. With the help of Eminem and Dr. Dre—who produced his first major commercial successes—he became one of the world's highest selling rappers. In 2003, he founded the record label G-Unit Records, which signed several successful rappers such as Young Buck, Lloyd Banks, and Tony Yayo.
50 Cent has engaged in feuds with other rappers including Ja Rule, The Game, Fat Joe and most recently Rick Ross. He has also pursued an acting career, appearing in the semi-autobiographical film Get Rich or Die Tryin' in 2005, the Iraq War film Home of the Brave in 2006, and Righteous Kill in 2008.
Daniel
There is something missing here - I'm not advocating censorship. That is not what is going on here. Walmart is acting out of concern for sales. If people made a big deal - they would probably end up selling the album. Walmart is a company determining what products it will carry.
TheHousingGuru
I don't support Wall-Mart. It's a huge company run by billionaires who want to make more billions. Along the way they make business decisions, many of which I don't agree with, but it's THEIR company. I sure as hell don't want someone telling me how I must run mine--the government is already much too deep into that. The bottom line is--and there is a bottom line: Private enterprise should be about doing whatever it chooses to do, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. Choosing not to sell a certain item doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. It just means that the potential customer may drive farther and pay more than they would have otherwise. And we, as consumers, can choose to support whichever enterprises we wish. It's really pretty simple and hardly worthy of a rant.
Freesmith
Now we've switched from "censorship" to hypocrisy as the subject.
It's tough to take aim; the damn target of Jim's ire keeps moving.
If one's values are not perfectly consistent, does that mean you are not allowed to have any values?
(Only parents of teenagers are allowed to answer that question.)
ptownman
Call it what ya like..... There are many other places one could buy the music.... Like on the internet.... Put it on YouTube..... Retailers should be able to buy wholesale what they want to sell or not sell......
Hell they (Wal-Mart) sold The Eagles new album that was full anti govt and anti war. Wal-Mart is a BLOW-FART let's give them a new name, how about WAL-FART...
F#<>k WalFart..... Everytime I go and I mean everytime there are at least 3 to 4 items sold out that are on my shopping list and that shelf spot is empty...... I tell the people working there that I have a new slogan for WalMart. YOU CAN GET IT CHEAPER AT WALMART IT YOU CAN GET IT......... The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing at WalFart... It has become too BIG and bloated just like the US Govt. The business graveyard is full of retail corpses, remember K-Mart, Woolworth's and etc. It will take a while but Wal-Fart will also find it's way to this graveyard.
JimQ
OK Freesmith, let's go back to the beginning. Wal-Mart evidently finds Green Day's CD as objectionable and offensive, therefore they are suppressing it by not selling it in their stores. The definition of suppression is: To keep from being revealed, published, or circulated. They are allowed to censor whatever they choose, as they are a public company. My point is that when a corporation as powerful as Wal-Mart (10% of all retail sales in America) decides what is offensive to the American public, it isn't a reach for them to dictate what else they feel is bad for the American public. Don't think that government censorship and corporate censorship aren't associated. The government now runs half of corporate America. Keep your eyes open and make sure the Hangman hasn't snuck into town.
1. suppression of published or broadcast material: the suppression of all or part of a play, movie, letter, or publication considered offensive or a threat to security
2. suppression of something objectionable: the suppression or attempted suppression of something regarded as objectionable
I know the hypocrisy angle threw you off. You were probably had your 50 Cent CD turned up too loud.
Freesmith
Jim, the CD is not suppressed. It is freely available at thousands of outlets - according to your numbers, 90 bloody percent of retail sellers - plus the internet. Wal-mart hasn't kept it from being revealed, published or circulated (your definition); in fact, they may well have increased its circulation (the argument in the article). Maybe that was their true motive. LOL
"It isn't a reach" for Wal-mart to dictate to the American public? Are you serious? This is an issue in contemporary America for you, the coming aesthetic dictatorship of Bentonville, Arkansas?
I DO think that government censorship and corporate censorship can be related. My whole point, which started this thread, was that government is the essential partner. Without government, corporate "censorship" is impotent. There would be no threat of force, and people would go elsewhere.
From time immemorial, businessmen have always wanted a government they could work with. That combination is the real threat to me. Why isn't it the real threat to you?
I dealt with your definitions above.
The way you carry on about Wal-mart, you sound like one of those pink sweat-shirted, hysterical harridans screaming about Halliburton.
(Don't get mad - I just couldn't resist the triple-H alliteration.)
Actually, I was listening to Biggie Smalls when I read your post.
Word.
JimQ
You'll find this hard to believe, but when I was with IKEA I researched and wrote a 25 page report on Wal-Mart for the top executives in Sweden. I have admired them ever since. I think they are the best run corporation in the world. They are also the most powerful corporation in the world.
Power tends to corrupt. I just see this act as a potential early warning signal of worse to come. Ron Paul describes our current form of government as corporate fascism. The military industrial complex, healthcare industrial complex, financial industrial complex, etc. combine with government and manipulate the general population. I think lies, half truths, censorship, PR campaigns are all part of their arsenal to mislead the public and deny us the truth.
I wish Wal-Mart the best. I got my Green Day CD from Amazon. Peace out.
Freesmith
I've gotta get back to work, too.
But there's one last thing that I've got to ask you, Jim.
When you wrote that 25-page report on Wal-mart for IKEA ---------
WHOSE SONG LYRICS DID YOU USE TO FRAME IT?
JoeReno
Freesmith has convinced me his feel for the issues around this Walmart/Green Day debate is more logicical and clearer than Mr. Quinn's.
compoundfracture
See how much I miss while I'm at work? Anyhow, I gotta go on the side of business freedom here. Were I running a business, I wouldn't want anyone telling me what I could and could not sell. I see how Wal-Mart is hypocritical here, but that's another subject.
Bottom line for me: I think Wal-Mart is full of corporate shit on this, but I don't have any problem with them not selling the disc. That's their business.
I realize Wal-Mart is a great American success story, but I hate that effin' place. I feel like I'm whoring myself into white-trash when I'm there. It's all I can do to stay out of the way of the huge fat people piling their carts full of cheap food and junk-shit from China.
I love buying their ammunition though - I mean...back when they had some. Cheapest in town.
GeithnerCrook
Quinn you are spot on . Finally someone who gets it abotu where the country is headed.
Buckhed
Jim...I gotta' disagree. Is Walmart hypocritical..you bet. However as a believer in freedom they have the right not to sell the CD.The shareholders can deal with the board etc for making poor business decisions
Freesmith
Here's what to worry about, folks, no matter whether you're talking about censorship, monopoly or universal health care.
It's when government and business are in bed together - Bedfellows.
Because remember, the businessman may have a cigar, but under those soft, satiny sheets the government has a GUN.
Read the article in the April 20, 2009 National Review, written by Jonah Goldberg.
(Thanks for the tip, Jim. I'll do better next time.)
BJIS2X
JimQ -- I don't think you are correct on this issue. I am no big fan of Wal-Mart and I have never listened to a Green Day CD. Wal-Mart should have an absolute F*****g right to sell whatever they choose to sell. If I choose to not shop at Wal-Mart, that is my right. Green Day has an absolute right to say whatever the F**k they choose to say on their CD. If I choose to never listen to their CD because the content offends my sensibilitities, that is my right.
Anonymous
Walmart is not the biggest corperation in the world. The biggest corperation in the world is the federal reserve system, which with its deceptive name gives the impression that it is a government organization.. but the federal reserve is neither federal nor a reserve but is in fact a private bank organized and controlled by the dominate superclass elite who's power of control of wealth makes walmart look as cheap as their chinese manufactured led tainted toys.