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Thanks for the article Jim.

The problem of 30 years of debt accumulation is being somehow solved by even more debt. This is insanity!

...and of course the 800 pound gorilla in the room - figuratively and literally - are all the Baby Boomers who will demand the services owed to them. This will pile on even more debt.

As much as I hate Bush for the hell he brought to this country, Obama may turn out to be a bigger dissapointment. I mean, we kinda knew Bush was an idiot, but I thought Obama was a pragmatist who actually had some analytical skills. I voted for him expecting the "change" he so professed.

His solution is to throw money at the problem.

Truth be told, I actually had some respect for Nancy Pelosi until a couple of weeks ago when she said the best way to stimulate the economy is to give people money.

Those of us who sweat and saved for years have been bitch-slapped by the Fed and Government.

TheBurningPlatform.com - polo
polo

What do you think about fascism - the merging of state with corporate. That seems to be at least as big a threat as socialism. Andfascism has been in place since the Bush administration - corporate interests ruling all of us along with the assault on civil liberties.

And are you as outraged  by the huge military budget and our immoral wars  as you are by social welfare programs/health care? It seems that our military spending [thanks to the gaping jaws of the  military industrial complex that must be continually fed] is as much of a threat as a health care program. 

As a taxpayer who is deeply aware of and concerned about the debt, if we're going to go down the debt hole, I'd much prefer that my taxes support taking care of our citizens who are truly in need [and the number who are TRULY in need is far less than the number who currently receive Medicare, SS, and welfare]   rather than killing foreigners and destroying their property in wars that are based on lies and the lust for oil and other resources.

I don't want to go back to the US as it was - a blind, greedy  empire with a huge sense of entitlement [American exceptionalism being one of history's greatest delusions] seeking only to expand its reach and using propaganda to justify its actions [we're invading Kuwait to liberate the people - HAHA!]. I want us to move forward and use our freedoms to create new and better value systems that are not based on achieving and maintaining our power over others and exploiting them in the process.

The amt of money spent on military and all related expenditures is at least, if not more, than all the entitlement programs. Why not devote a column to that?

TheBurningPlatform.com - DavosSherman
DavosSherman
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Super read. A good fix would be what they did in the movie "Incredible Journey, the story of Hampton Dunes." 

TheBurningPlatform.com - Alan
Alan
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W

TheBurningPlatform.com - mulligan
mulligan
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Thanks Jim. Good article. In fact, if you survey the news available there are many, many articles that provide information as to why we are where we are and where we are headed. 9/11 was a wake-up call. It lasted for a few minutes. Unfortunately, those in power could care less. They are selfish, greedy, self-serving, ignorant, and lying politicians. And why not, they have hoodwinked us voter's for years and we bought the scam. Guess we thought we could put our hand in someone else's pocket but no one would  be able to put his hand in our pocket. Future? In my opinion, it will take many more 9/11's to wake us up. And it could be too late. Time will tell.

TheBurningPlatform.com - Alan
Alan

When the bloated, rotting, stinking husk that is the United States finally collapses in economic and moral ruin, we Americans will only have ourselves to blame, for having been so lazy, stupid, shallowly materialistic and complicit in allowing a self-serving political and financial elite to hijack our nation, rape it,  and then throw the dying body on the side of the road.  All you Hummer-driving, McMansion-inhabiting, sports and American Idol-mesmerized, electronic gadget-obsessed fools are as much to blame as Washington and Wall Street.  I am disgusted to have to live in the same perverted society as you, and ashamed to call myself an American.

TheBurningPlatform.com - Hard-Ball Jim
Hard-Ball Jim

Nancy Pelosi ?  Pushing health care for everyone ?  Isn't she the politicista who wanted to impeach Bush for his eccenticities, secret testimonies from her rivals and be inaugurated as Presidentista if Obama and Biden are accidented ?  

TheBurningPlatform.com - Baaah
Baaah

 Another impressive expose, a mind-numbing list of ways in which the USG is screwing us, a solid analysis of why PapSmear won't accomplish what it claims, won't provide "helath care for all," but will instead extend the claws a little deeper.  And... ?  We know this.  We know the many scams, MkKain-Findgold Incumbent Reelection Reform, No Child Left Unindoctrinated, TakeMoreDrugs ItsOnUs, Cap-n-TradeAwayYourWallet.

And...?   Listed under means of defense:  the Constitution.  under solutions:  Ron Paul.  

Great.

If Medicare and Medicaid are as bad as you say they are (and your evidence is compelling), then no reforms, no matter how good they are, can possibly work.  The only solution is a gradual phasing out of these programs until they are gone.

Why should a percentage of each of my paychecks go to fund some stranger's health care?  What right does that person have to levy a tax on me?

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To Polo the Compassionate:

"I don't want to go back to the US as it was - a blind, greedy  empire with a huge sense of entitlement" is a statement issued from Propaganda-R-Us.   It's been "empire with a huge sense of entitlement" since Teddy Roosevelt and his merry band of Civil Services, and a blind, greedy empire since Jackson, at least.

 It is a view of America as it IS, not just WAS.  A slanted, one-sided view, if partly accurate.  But you don't diminish behavior by rewarding it.  Don't like a huge sense of entitlement?  Stop handing out the goodies in the name of "they're entitled" to receive said goodies.

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 Jim, although you know I sympathize with your Constitutional view, I have to remind you that the document AS WRITTEN is compatible with the basic thrust of this legislation.  Frankly, I hope businesses and individuals will refuse to comply, go to court, and be vindicated like the New York City poultry-business brothers did in 1935.  We need to see Fedzilla stopped, even by a holding action.  But it won't last, this bucket leaks.  The more Statist court of 1936 threw out the "unconstitutional" ruling of 1935 and here we are.

Some Founders insisted on constructions that were colored by their desire to have the actual words read one way only, like Madison did when he vetoed the Roads bill in 1817.  Other Founders like Hamilton read the Constitution as broadly as the actual wording allowed, and Washington backed him.   By 1821 Madison was writing everyone to say the expansionist interpretations, especially those of SCOTUS that gave itself powers not listed in the Constitution (judicial review), must be accepted for the sake of Union.

 

 I know you don't WANT it to allow it, you know I don't WANT the document to be vulnerable on this, but an unbiased reading of the document permits this crapola.  You just don't get to make a contract, insist that someone follow it as written, then complain when they do.  Please read Brutus #5 or Why the Words of the Constitution Matter.  We were warned.

 

Article I:  Section 8 lists all the "Congress shall have power to" do stuff, including to gather funds by tax and to spend "to provide... for the general welfare" and "to pass all laws necessary and proper to carry into Execution the foregoing powers".  The wording of these enumerations of Powers is no different than those enumerated in all the clauses between.

              Section 9 lists all the "Congress shall not" stuff, with a few more added by the Bill of Rights.

     10th Amendment explicitly restricts USG to the powers delegated under the Constitution.

Strictly construed, Article I grants Congress the power to do this shit, Section 9 doesn't forbid it, and 10th amendment doesn't apply.

A hard Truth to hear:  the Constitution AS WRITTEN is a chimera.  It is a fort with walls of mud built on sand that subsides and weakens irreparably with every rain, with every Statist reign.  It is a ship with growing holes riddling its hull, and continuing to put it out to sea will end in Liberty finally foundering.

 

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From Brutus #6

"But it is said, by some of the advocates of this system, "That the idea that Congress can levy taxes at pleasure, is false, and the suggestion wholly unsupported: that the preamble to the constitution is declaratory of the purposes of the union, and the assumption of any power not necessary to establish justice, &c. to provide for the common defence, &c. will be unconstitutional. Besides, in the very clause which gives the power of levying duties and taxes, the purposes to which the money shall be appropriated, are specified, viz. "to pay the debts, and provide for the common defence and general welfare."

"I would ask those, who reason thus, to define what ideas are included under the terms, "to provide for the common defence and general welfare"? Are these terms definite, and will they be understood in the same manner, and to apply to the same cases by every one? No one will pretend they will. It will then be matter of opinion, what tends to the general welfare; and the Congress will be the only judges in the matter. To provide for the general welfare, is an abstract proposition, which mankind differ in the explanation of, as much as they do on any political or moral proposition that can be proposed; the most opposite measures may be pursued by different parties, and both may profess, that they have in view the general welfare; and both sides may be honest in their professions, or both may have sinister views.

"It is as absurd to say, that the power of Congress is limited by these general expressions, "to provide for the common safety, and general welfare," as it would be to say, that it would be limited, had the constitution said they should have power to lay taxes, &c. at will and pleasure... it would be found, in practice, a most pitiful restriction. The government would always say, their measures were designed and calculated to promote the public good; and there being no judge between them and the people, the rulers themselves must, and would always, judge for themselves."

 

TheBurningPlatform.com - Anonymous2
Anonymous2
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Great great article!

TheBurningPlatform.com - Swashbuckler
Swashbuckler
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Acute financial distress will be visited on those people who are too lazy or stupid or naive to believe that the government will not confiscate citizens' assets when the collapse arrives. If you don't believe the financial markets can crash in a horrific way, I would urge you to get a copy of Black Monday, which was written by Tim Metz soon after the 1987 stock market crash. It is an insider's minute-by-minute account of what transpired during those six days. The author of the book used access from the largest players involved in the crisis, in writing his book.   At the worst point of the crisis we were hours from the whole system crashing--banks, stock market, the works. There were simply NO buy orders on the exchanges. The market makers on the floor of the exchanges were specifically directed by the Fed officials, Treasury officials, and largest banks, to turn the markets. That's why a Dow Jones stock rose, like, for instance, 12 points on 2 HUNDRED share volume when the day before it had fallen 30 points on 14 MILLION share volume. All the Dow stocks WERE TURNED in this fashion, and as the market moved higher, confidence was restored and real buyers moved in. And the crisis was averted. And the government officials deserve to be commended for stabilizing the panic situation. The point here, and in the book, is that the Fed and other government officials did not know at the time whether their manipulation would work. There is no guarantee that the strategy will work again because the dynamics of the markets have changed radically since 1987. Had it not worked then, the consequences would have been catastrophic for the country, and by proxy, the world markets. You read that book and you will know beyond all doubt that it is EXTREMELY plausible for an irreversible breakdown of the system to occur. One that would take DECADES to repair or restore. And in the late eighties, the potential for nightmarish shit was microscopic compared to today. I mean, relative to today, the eighties were a fucking joke. Today's poisoned mortgages and hundreds of trillions $ in shit derivatives----please don't think everything will be alright simply because you can't conceive of a breakdown. My personal opinion is that a catalyst (probably China pulling the plug or a Hillary Clinton foreign policy blunder) may trigger a crisis sometime in the next couple of years  Do whatever you can to legally protect your assets.   Cover your ass.     Regards, Swash

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Jim - Correction about The Deer Hunter characters. Michael was actually Robert DeNiro, and Nick was Christopher Walken, if I remember correctly. Besides that, great article as usual. 

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Healthcare is an unfortunate victim of its own success.

As medicine became better and better at limiting suffering and increasing one's quality of life for a longer and longer time span, insurance was no longer a means to replace income due to lost wages during times of sickness but to supplement rising medical costs that more and more people were unable to afford on their own.  It started a cascading transfer of wealth from the healthy to the sick.  As the baby boomers age and require more and more health care, the costs are only going to continue to escalate for the insurer and the insured.  A massive transfer of wealth will have to take place from the younger generation to the older generation as the older generation is unable to afford the care they desire.  Something will have to give.  It is an unsustainable model both in the private sector and the public sector.

TheBurningPlatform.com - Anonymous
Anonymous
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 JQ, I'll bet the health care insurance you get is paid for by the major university you work for. If that's true, aren't you being a bit hypocritical here? In other words, you're saying that if someone doesn't earn enough in pay and benefits to afford health care, they should just go to the emergency room when they're at a point where providing their care will be much costlier. The chart you include in this post showing Health Care Spending as percentage of GDP actually shows other countries with more nationalized health care systems with lower costs. The US is more privatized than most other advanced industrialized nations. How do you account for that? Waste, corruption, and greed by the government, private insurance, and drug companies is a huge factor, but your posts are always extremely lopsided on the side of having a totally dog-eat-dog society. The world's problems will not be solved by black and white solutions.

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 The 16% healthcare $$$ is fallacious. It includes much more than MD/Hospital/drug costs. 

It DOES include contact lenses, boob jobs. jet helicopter transports, $4000 electric scooters advertised on TV, braces for your kids, Gucci eyeglasses, band aids, tampax, douches etc. Oh, and aspirin and dental floss. And don't forget your vitamins !

TheBurningPlatform.com - Jan
Jan
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Great article and I'm glad to have the data about the numbers of uninsured.

But you don't mention the real reason for cost escalation (after third party payments).  Almost the entire medical system is devoted to treating symptoms, not causes.   The branch of medicine that treats causes is and has been under attack by the AMA, Pharma and their minions in the FDA.

We should all be paying cash for primary care.  It is the only way to bring costs down and introduce real competition.  Even Medicaid recipients should have some type of medical savings account.  Medical practices that are cash only usually reduce their prices 30-50% and make as much or more money than before.

The second major cost reducer is reining in the FDA--Ron Paul has 3 bills to do just that--Can't remember numbers, maybe HR 3394,3395, 3396   They regularly remove low cost, effective treatments from the market because "pharmaceuticals can't compete with non-patent medicines"  I'm surprised Ron Paul didn't mention this in his "plan" 

 

Jim--You should check out the natural medicine practioners and pioneers and tell your readers about them.  See:  JV Wright, M.D., M. Hyman, M.D., A. Spreen, MD and functional medicine, nutritional medicine.

 

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If medical care isn't subsidized,  then US Cardiothoracic surgeons would have to lower their prices to Indian levels in order to have any kind of reasonable client base.  The number of people who can afford to pay out of pocket for a Heart Transplant is exceedingly small, and getting smaller by the day.  Doctors most certainly don't want their paychecks cut, anymore than Ford workers want theirs cut.  Of course, the AMA has a good deal more clout than the UAW. LOL.

The whole purpose of the Health Insurance plan is to sieve still more money into the hands of Pharmaceutical companies and Doctors at the top of the food chain.  Big expensive proceedures are the lifeblood of the Golfing crowd.  Whack out a bypass in the morning, hit the links in the afternoon.

With people too poor these days to afford the prices charged by Doctors and Pharmaceutical companies, the only place they can get their outsized paychecks from is Da Goobermint, and since they have such a strong lobby, they'll likely get it. Since the poor aren't able to pay the costs out of pocket, if any poor folks are gonna get Heart Transplants, then the shortfall has to come from the rich.  If ONLY the rich get Heart transplants, then the Surgeons don't make enough money, because there aren't THAT many rich folks who need transplants all the time.  Usually they buy only one of them anyhow, not two. LOL.

Anyhow, the answer to the problem is simply to stay under the threshold of income where you get taxed to pay for those other folks to get transplants on your dime, and rather get your transplant on somebody else's dime.  This should not be too hard to do for most people, since they are either unemployed or their wages are being slashed by the day.  This is only a problem for people who make a LOT of money, and there are fewer of those every day.  Politically speaking, you'll find many more people who are in favor of taxing the rich to support the poor, since there are more poor people then there are rich people.  Classic Robin Hood problem.

RE

TheBurningPlatform.com - jaw
jaw
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Does anyone have the data on the benifits of our past and present presidents, congressman and senators?  Or what the differeane there would be to our budget if they had only SS and Medicare benifits?  After seeing the move John Adams and he left the White House on  public transportation with no fan fair and now they are like rock stars with the tax payer paying for their rock star life styles.

TheBurningPlatform.com - Anonymous
Anonymous

Apparently the author thinks that women are property, like a BMW, e.g., his reference to "the right to drive a BMW X5, the right to a beautiful wife." If he had written "attractive spouse," then his writing would not be such an insult to more than half the population. Either that, or he assumes that his audience is entirely male. What an idiot! I feel sorry for his wife and his family. It must be painful to put up with such patronizing attitudes, day after day. He probably feels that he owns his children, as well. The old Roman paterfamilias, where the family included the slaves.

TheBurningPlatform.com - Anonymous
Anonymous
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As long as any person is considered to be property, all people are considered to be property.

Is it any wonder that the government thinks it owns us when attitudes such as this still persist?

The hypocrisy of Quinn's article is just astounding.

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What happened to the good old days on TBP when I had to fight people all day?

I'm waging war on this same article on Seeking Alpha and Minyanville. I'm at my foul mouthed best. There are millions of liberals out there to crush. Join the fray.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/170514-america-the-nanny-state

http://www.minyanville.com/articles/economy-government-healthcare-obama-deficit-debt-medicaid-medicare-doctors-medical-malpractice-lawyers-congress-hospitals/index/a/25230

TheBurningPlatform.com - Anonymous
Anonymous
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Well Jim, this one cuts the bounds.  In previous personal email I've attempted to show you that when Progressives and Libertarians come together in Common Cause because they understand that Entrenched Capital is our joint adversary, we the American People will take back our country.

Of course you are unable to respond.  I do feel very sorry for you and grieve for your self-righteous limitations that keeps you bound to serve what has become Democtratic Fascism, whereby well meaning people vote against the best interests of their families and themselves. 

You're such a dodo head that you don't even realize that in your last two pics of Chris Walken wearing the red bandana, he is well past the time early in the movie when they were breaking out of capitivity.  By then he is living in Saigon, and is a willing competitor in a gambling hall Russian Roullete game, for money.  Like so many, he's been driven past logical thinking, so convinced of his sanctity and grace, he keeps pulling the trigger on his own-self, to shoot himself in the head, or not, if he's lucky, and all that for day money. 

Kinda reminds me of some folks.  Seem familiar???  Check the mirror.

TheBurningPlatform.com - Anonymous
Anonymous
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JimQ is clearly a sensitive guy -- very, very hypersensitive about himself, so very, very touchy and driven to the crudest self-expression in response to any criticism -- I don't know how anyone can take him seriously. He obviously takes himself far too seriously for his own good. Well, enough. Now I won't have to bother wasting time reading his ridiculous emissions -- a man with a small vision to match his small heart. 

TheBurningPlatform.com - Dsgruntled
Dsgruntled
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Any type of punishment without a trial volates the Constitutional prohibition against "bills of attainder" and the principe of separation of powers. Only the judiial branch can determine guilt or innocence for a violatio of the laws, and the punishment for such. The IRS in NOT part of the Judicial Branch. Neither is the IRS Tax Court

Monetary fine also fail the requirement fro "due process" prior to deprivation of property.

The feds cannot force you to provide information on a tax return for a FINEABLE offense. A tax return is a PRIVATE PAPER, and any compelling (such as any type of punishment for failre to provide that information) is forbdden by the 5th Amendmnt  and such a compelling is also a violtion of the 4th Amendmment as it constitute involuntary sarch and seizure

Language from two US Supreme Court case is cited below

Counselman v Hitchcock

It is an ancient principle of the law of evidence that a witness shall not be compelled, in any proceeding, to make disclosures or to give testimony which will tend to criminate him or subject him to fines, penalties, or forfeitures.

Boyd v US

It does not require actual entry upon premises and search for and seizure of papers to constitute an unreasonable search and seizure within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment; a compulsory production of a party’s private books and papers to be used against himself or his property in a criminal or penal proceeding, or for a forfeiture, is within the spirit and meaning of the Amendment.

The seizure or compulsory production of a man’s private papers to be used in evidence against him is equivalent to compelling him to be a witness against himself, and, in a prosecution for a crime, penalty or forfeiture, is equally within the prohibition of the Fifth Amendment.

A proceeding to forfeit a person’s goods for an offence against the laws, though civil in form, and whether in rem or in personam, is a “criminal case” within the meaning of that part of the Fifth Amendment which declares that no person “shall be compelled, in any criminal case, to be a witness against himself.”

And any compulsory discovery by extorting the party’s oath, or compelling the production of his private books and papers, to convict him of crime or to forfeit his property, is contrary to the principles of a free government. It is abhorrent to the instincts of an Englishman; it is abhorrent to the instincts of an American. It may suit the purposes of despotic power, but it cannot abide the pure atmosphere of political liberty and personal freedom

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The Worst Bill Ever Epic new spending and taxes, pricier insurance, rationed care, dishonest accounting: The Pelosi health bill has it all.
  •   Speaker Nancy Pelosi has reportedly told fellow Democrats that she's prepared to lose seats in 2010 if that's what it takes to pass ObamaCare, and little wonder. The health bill she unwrapped last Thursday, which President Obama hailed as a "critical milestone," may well be the worst piece of post-New Deal legislation ever introduced.

In a rational political world, this 1,990-page runaway train would have been derailed months ago. With spending and debt already at record peacetime levels, the bill creates a new and probably unrepealable middle-class entitlement that is designed to expand over time. Taxes will need to rise precipitously, even as ObamaCare so dramatically expands government control of health care that eventually all medicine will be rationed via politics.

Yet at this point, Democrats have dumped any pretense of genuine bipartisan "reform" and moved into the realm of pure power politics as they race against the unpopularity of their own agenda. The goal is to ram through whatever income-redistribution scheme they can claim to be "universal coverage." The result will be destructive on every level—for the health-care system, for the country's fiscal condition, and ultimately for American freedom and prosperity.

View Full Image

worstbill

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi.

worstbill worstbill

•The spending surge. The Congressional Budget Office figures the House program will cost $1.055 trillion over a decade, which while far above the $829 billion net cost that Mrs. Pelosi fed to credulous reporters is still a low-ball estimate. Most of the money goes into government-run "exchanges" where people earning between 150% and 400% of the poverty level—that is, up to about $96,000 for a family of four in 2016—could buy coverage at heavily subsidized rates, tied to income. The government would pay for 93% of insurance costs for a family making $42,000, 72% for another making $78,000, and so forth.

At least at first, these benefits would be offered only to those whose employers don't provide insurance or work for small businesses with 100 or fewer workers. The taxpayer costs would be far higher if not for this "firewall"—which is sure to cave in when people see the deal their neighbors are getting on "free" health care. Mrs. Pelosi knows this, like everyone else in Washington.

Even so, the House disguises hundreds of billions of dollars in additional costs with budget gimmicks. It "pays for" about six years of program with a decade of revenue, with the heaviest costs concentrated in the second five years. The House also pretends Medicare payments to doctors will be cut by 21.5% next year and deeper after that, "saving" about $250 billion. ObamaCare will be lucky to cost under $2 trillion over 10 years; it will grow more after that.

• Expanding Medicaid, gutting private Medicare. All this is particularly reckless given the unfunded liabilities of Medicare—now north of $37 trillion over 75 years. Mrs. Pelosi wants to steal $426 billion from future Medicare spending to "pay for" universal coverage. While Medicare's price controls on doctors and hospitals are certain to be tightened, the only cut that is a sure thing in practice is gutting Medicare Advantage to the tune of $170 billion. Democrats loathe this program because it gives one of out five seniors private insurance options.

As for Medicaid, the House will expand eligibility to everyone below 150% of the poverty level, meaning that some 15 million new people will be added to the rolls as private insurance gets crowded out at a cost of $425 billion. A decade from now more than a quarter of the population will be on a program originally intended for poor women, children and the disabled.

Even though the House will assume 91% of the "matching rate" for this joint state-federal program—up from today's 57%—governors would still be forced to take on $34 billion in new burdens when budgets from Albany to Sacramento are in fiscal collapse. Washington's budget will collapse too, if anything like the House bill passes.

• European levels of taxation. All told, the House favors $572 billion in new taxes, mostly by imposing a 5.4-percentage-point "surcharge" on joint filers earning over $1 million, $500,000 for singles. This tax will raise the top marginal rate to 45% in 2011 from 39.6% when the Bush tax cuts expire—not counting state income taxes and the phase-out of certain deductions and exemptions. The burden will mostly fall on the small businesses that have organized as Subchapter S or limited liability corporations, since the truly wealthy won't have any difficulty sheltering their incomes.

This surtax could hit ever more earners because, like the alternative minimum tax, it isn't indexed for inflation. Yet it still won't be nearly enough. Even if Congress had confiscated 100% of the taxable income of people earning over $500,000 in the boom year of 2006, it would have only raised $1.3 trillion. When Democrats end up soaking the middle class, perhaps via the European-style value-added tax that Mrs. Pelosi has endorsed, they'll claim the deficits that they created made them do it.

Under another new tax, businesses would have to surrender 8% of their payroll to government if they don't offer insurance or pay at least 72.5% of their workers' premiums, which eat into wages. Such "play or pay" taxes always become "pay or pay" and will rise over time, with severe consequences for hiring, job creation and ultimately growth. While the U.S. already has one of the highest corporate income tax rates in the world, Democrats are on the way to creating a high structural unemployment rate, much as Europe has done by expanding its welfare states.

Meanwhile, a tax equal to 2.5% of adjusted gross income will also be imposed on some 18 million people who CBO expects still won't buy insurance in 2019. Democrats could make this penalty even higher, but that is politically unacceptable, or they could make the subsidies even higher, but that would expose the (already ludicrous) illusion that ObamaCare will reduce the deficit.

• The insurance takeover. A new "health choices commissioner" will decide what counts as "essential benefits," which all insurers will have to offer as first-dollar coverage. Private insurers will also be told how much they are allowed to charge even as they will have to offer coverage at virtually the same price to anyone who applies, regardless of health status or medical history.

The cost of insurance, naturally, will skyrocket. The insurer WellPoint estimates based on its own market data that some premiums in the individual market will triple under these new burdens. The same is likely to prove true for the employer-sponsored plans that provide private coverage to about 177 million people today. Over time, the new mandates will apply to all contracts, including for the large businesses currently given a safe harbor from bureaucratic tampering under a 1974 law called Erisa.

The political incentive will always be for government to expand benefits and reduce cost-sharing, trampling any chance of giving individuals financial incentives to economize on care. Essentially, all insurers will become government contractors, in the business of fulfilling political demands: There will be no such thing as "private" health insurance.

***

All of this is intentional, even if it isn't explicitly acknowledged. The overriding liberal ambition is to finish the work began decades ago as the Great Society of converting health care into a government responsibility. Mr. Obama's own Medicare actuaries estimate that the federal share of U.S. health dollars will quickly climb beyond 60% from 46% today. One reason Mrs. Pelosi has fought so ferociously against her own Blue Dog colleagues to include at least a scaled-back "public option" entitlement program is so that the architecture is in place for future Congresses to expand this share even further.

As Congress's balance sheet drowns in trillions of dollars in new obligations, the political system will have no choice but to start making cost-minded decisions about which treatments patients are allowed to receive. Democrats can't regulate their way out of the reality that we live in a world of finite resources and infinite wants. Once health care is nationalized, or mostly nationalized, medical rationing is inevitable—especially for the innovative high-cost technologies and drugs that are the future of medicine.

Mr. Obama rode into office on a wave of "change," but we doubt most voters realized that the change Democrats had in mind was making health care even more expensive and rigid than the status quo. Critics will say we are exaggerating, but we believe it is no stretch to say that Mrs. Pelosi's handiwork ranks with the Smoot-Hawley tariff and FDR's National Industrial Recovery Act as among the worst bills Congress has ever seriously contemplated.

TheBurningPlatform.com - Anonymous
Anonymous

 Hey JQ! Why don't you and your kind just move to another country since you hate it here so much. You can gripe all you want about socialists, but that's not who is actually running things. Follow the money asshole.

TheBurningPlatform.com - anonymous2
anonymous2
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You really do get the hecklers don't you Jim?

TheBurningPlatform.com - Anonymous
Anonymous

 You're such an idot JQ. You really don't know where the wasted tax dollars go do you? Or maybe you're just hoping to climb your way into the gentlemen's club so you can look down at the rest of the pathetic bastards? I see right through you.

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I posted the following response to Alan's comments above.

Alan said:  "I am disgusted to have to live in the same perverted society as you, and ashamed to call myself an American."

Harsh words, Alan, and for that, you get a thumbs down.  I agree with some of what you say, but we still have a chance to right the ship of state.  The chances are getting slimmer, admittedly, but I have hope.  And I am NOT ASHAMED TO BE AN AMERICAN.  

Who were the 9 thumbs up?  Speak up!!  Tell us why you are ashamed to call yourself an American.  I'm betting that not one of you cowards will respond.

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Public Option Skeptics Find Support in CBO Study (Update1)   Share | Email | Print | A A A

By James Rowley

Nov. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Economists skeptical about a U.S. government-run health-insurance plan have new evidence to support their argument that it won’t force private insurers to cut premiums.

The Congressional Budget Office says a version of the so- called public option backed by House Democrats would charge “somewhat higher” premiums than the average private insurance policy offered on a government-sponsored exchange to be set up to sell coverage to small businesses and individuals.

That counters claims by President Barack Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi that the public option would charge lower premiums to “keep insurers honest.”

One reason premiums may be higher: Pelosi, seeking votes to pass a $1.055 trillion House health bill, decided against a “robust” public option, which would peg doctor reimbursements to Medicare rates to cut costs. Instead, she proposed that the new program negotiate fees it pays providers.

“The robust option had a lot more power to buy services from providers at much lower rates than private insurers paid,” said Paul Ginsburg, an economist who heads the nonpartisan Center for Studying Health System Change in Washington. “That would have been a big deal.”

The House and Senate are considering legislation to expand health coverage to tens of millions of uninsured Americans and try to rein in costs. The public option is among the most contentious issues, opposed by every Republican and by some Democrats, who say it would offer unfair competition for insurers such as Indianapolis-based WellPoint Inc. and Hartford, Connecticut-based Aetna Inc.

Vote Coming Up

House Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer told reporters today the House will start debating the measure later this week, with a vote on final passage possibly as early as Nov. 7.

“It’s our intention to have the bill on the floor Friday or Saturday,” Hoyer said. A final vote would take place no later than Nov. 10, he said.

The Congressional Budget Office yesterday also reported that health-care costs would eat up as much as 20 percent of income for some families, even those getting subsidies, under legislation being considered by the House.

A family of four with an annual income of $66,000 would be eligible for $10,500 in subsidies if they purchased insurance on health exchanges created under the bill, and would still pay $10,000 to cover premiums, deductibles and copayments, the CBO said.

On the public option, the budget office estimated in an Oct. 29 letter to congressional leaders that rates the program pays to doctors and hospitals would “on average, probably be comparable to those paid by private insurers” that sell on the exchange.

Won’t Curb Benefits

The public option wouldn’t curb benefit payouts as much as private insurers by managing how people use health care, the CBO said. It would also incur higher costs because it would draw a “a less healthy pool of enrollees.”

“Attracting sicker people” and doing less “utilization management than private plans” would “put the public plan in a weak competitive position,” said Ginsburg.

The CBO estimated the House public option would attract about 6 million people. Some economists say that to dictate lower fees it pays to doctors and hospitals, the public option would need more enrollees.

Hoyer, of Maryland, said the CBO’s estimate rebuts the Republican argument that the public plan would “drive the private-sector insurance companies out of business.”

House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, a California Democrat, said the new program would “be competitive because it will not be putting money into shareholder dividends and executive salary bonuses.”

Questioned about the public plan’s competitiveness at an Oct. 30 conference call with reporters, Miller said it “would operate on a level playing field” that “in some years makes it more expensive than other plans, on other years it may be more competitive or less expensive.”

Unfair Advantage

Some economists also say the public option would have the unfair advantage of not being taxed and, if it loses money, to ask Congress to make up the shortfall.

“I am skeptical of the ability of the public plan to deliver meaningful competition while keeping within a break- even budget constraint,” said Leemore Dafny, a health economist at Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management in Evanston, Illinois. “Sure, it will inject competition if they don’t have to break even.”

Republican lawmakers, insurance industry officials and some economists contend that the advantage of government subsidies would eventually push private competitors out of the market.

“It’s a risk,” said Maine Senator Olympia Snowe, the only Republican in Congress to show willingness to support a Democratic health plan.

Working With Democrats

Snowe said she’s working with Democrats who oppose the public option, which is included in the proposal Democratic Leader Harry Reid says he’ll submit to the Senate for a vote.

The public option would be included on the new online exchanges intended to extend insurance to individuals and small business owners. House leaders said the CBO estimates on premiums confirm that their bill will curb costs.

“This underscores that this legislation will control health costs and lower health-care premiums for families and individuals,” said Representatives Henry Waxman, Charles Rangel and Miller, in a joint statement.

Waxman, a California Democrat, is chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee. Rangel, of New York, heads the Ways and Means panel.

The chairmen said under their bill premiums for a family making $102,100 would be $15,000 by 2016. “This is well below the $24,000 family premium expected if Congress fails to act and premiums grow as projected under current law,” they said.

TheBurningPlatform.com - Quisp
Quisp
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“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churchill

 

Seriously?? You use what an empiricist wrote about socialism? Of course Churchill said such a thing, he saw other countries as cheap labor and cheap goods. Why the British empire saw Americans [continentalists of the day] as socialists and we fought to get away from such greedsters.

 

Good lord Jim, we were once seen as socialists, or communists by these aristocratic let them eat cake people interested in screwing others over for their lavish lifestyles

TheBurningPlatform.com - Quisp
Quisp
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And if, and when, America fails [such as wall street has shown] it will be because of these parasites who see the people as useless eaters and created an empire and ALL empires thruout history have failed not because of socialism but because of empirical greed.

 

Who bailed out who?

TheBurningPlatform.com - Anonymous
Anonymous
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So what is the real trigger point when we rise up as armed Americans and take this country back.  Is it when we are taxed beyond our means to survive?  To pay for programs that are pushed down out throats even when we know full well that we cannot afford them? The conservatives talk of winning back seats in the house and senate in 2010 and beyond but the reality is if we wait that long the greatest country ever to be formed will long since cease to exist.  I am presently reading about George Washington's last stand.  The night he crossed the Delaware on Christmas night in the middle of a raging Northeastern, down to 2,500 men, sleet and snow raging, burlap sacks for shoes, some with none, racked with colds, fever and God knows what all, no food, clothes down to tatters, blankets for coats, boats capzising making the crossing loosing both men and horses, every conceivable odd against them, knowing the time was now victory or death...and yet they pressed on and by chance a miracle was with them and through their sacrifiices, that we can't even imagine in this day and age, they caught the British sleeping and won forever the birth of our country.  My God how we diminish what they indured to get to the point we are at today.  I for one will still stand with Washington and his band with loaded gun to take this republic back from the brink if that is what it takes. Something tells me I am not alone

TheBurningPlatform.com - Sandra Moore
Sandra Moore
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 Markets distribute goods and services according to the ability to pay for these goods and services.  People are willing to abide by this arrangement until the market price of necessities that they need to survive rises to the point where they can no longer afford the price.

At that point they have a choice:  Either abide by the wisdom of the market which tells them they cannot have a roof over their head, food in their stomach, and medical attention for their kids.

OR...unfazed by the decision of the market they will fight; they will resort to violence to get what they need.

Presumably market adherents will fight back.

No wonder they want guns.

Except, what if former market adherents (ie, DUPES), become the ones on the short end of the stick, and realize that they themselves are on the short end of their formerly beloved "market"?

Bottom line.....People have, and always will fight violently when they are facing death and their children are facing death.

It's is easy to welcome such a confrontation when arrogance tells you that you (and the market) will crush these "losers".  

But what if they crush you ?

And there will be many of them.

What if you lose the fight you lust for and the fight you are sure you will win ?

If so, you had better hope your foes are more flexible than you are.

If they are, all you have to worry about is digging up onions on the night shift for the rest of your life.

But if your foes are like you, that will seem like paradise.

Good luck.

SM

TheBurningPlatform.com - Anonymous
Anonymous
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Hello, I live in Belgium where we have a government-run healthcare system. Solidarity is not an empty word, since have-nots can rely on medical care in the same way as the more priviliged in our society. In Belgium anyone can walk into a hospital and ask for assistance, which he will receive without discussion. (although we have to say that unpaid bills are a rising problem within a lot of hospitals) We have state of the art hospitals with overpaid doctors and underpaid trainee-doctors and nurses, but that is a global problem, I would say. The system works thanks to a yearly budget of 26 billion Euro, which is approx 10% of GDP and between 40 and 50 % of the yearly Belgian budget. Expensive? Depends on how you look at it. Every working Belgian and every beneficiary of an allowance of any kind (unemployed, pension  etc) has to pay  around 5% of his income for medical insurance. The same amount is covered by his employer (if any). This results in a "medical" budget where on average approx 2.600 euro per Belgian is spent every year. For example, we get a refund of doctors visits and medicines. Where a doctors visit costs around 25 euro, we get a refund of 21 euro. Where some medicines cost 25 euro per treatment, we only pay 10 euro etc etc. Getting a new hip will cost you a few hundred euro net cost. Basic dental treatment is practically free for kids under twelve. Of course people who suffer from long-lasting diseases or handicaps will have greater expenses, since not everything is covered. A lot of people pay extra for private insurance to cover these extra expenses.

Don’t we have problems? Sure we do, we are the most highly taxed country in Europe (apart from the Scandinavians) with a highest taxation scale of 50% not mentioning VAT (21%) on any product we buy and gasoline taxations (we pay 2.10 USD per liter of gasoline or roughly 8 bucks per gallon). But we drive small cars since Belgium is about the size of a napkin (just kidding) The medical care system is a yearly sorrow for the government (center-left coalition) and with the problem of aging, this doesn’t become any easier. Can we continue to afford ourselves this health-insurance system? On the other hand, letting go of the solidarity principle will divide our country into two camps, those who can afford medical care and those who cannot. And we are afraid that in a world where everyone takes care of his own insurance, the costs will not become less, neither will the social problems . When I look around, a lot of Belgians are complaining about the high taxation rate, but on the other hand they are aware that we live in a blessed country when you ‘re having health problems. Nobody wants to change that… for the time being. Belgium is a rich country with 10 mio inhabitants of which around 300.000 live beneath what we call the poverty-line, but with more than 30.000 euro-millionaires.

Right after World War 2 the Belgian population had to stand in line for a cup of soup and died of disease by the hundreds. We aren’t proud of our country in much ways, and a lot of things go wrong, but the fact that we were able to surpass these conditions without being stripped of the possibility to make progress individually ànd keep our "freedom" (or at least the illusion of it) is nothing to be ashamed of. Mixing government intervention with free enterprise is not an easy job, but in our case, it has worked more or less. 50 years of social security has improved the life expectancy to 85. Will it be running for another 50 years in the same way? I don’t know, but I wouldn’t mind. Every society has to decisions like the one tackled in this article on his own. When comparing your society to other countries and communities however, just comparing the financial aspects of systems is not enough, to my opinion. You have to take all aspects into consideration… Greetings from Belgium and good luck to all of you!

PS: I love the platform, if only for the controversial and critical thinking that most of the mainstream information lack so often

TheBurningPlatform.com - Hangnail
Hangnail
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Belgium poster, I agree with Mr. Quinn.  Good post.  It is nice to hear a different perspective.  It would be extremely hard to compare our two countries, and I'm of the mind that there is no way to compare the two, but that doesn't make your post any less worth reading and considering.

As one that was wounded in combat, and having had to go through the military/government health care "system," I can say that while the shit gets done, it doesn't get done efficiently.  Worse, after care with the VA system is a real bitch.  I'm a disabled vet, and have to deal with the VA on a semi-regular basis, and it well and truly sucks. 

TheBurningPlatform.com - Quisp
Quisp
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Reform is about insurance reform. Not government health care. Health insurance is basically a Ponzi scheme. The healthy pay in and the sick 5% create 95% of the claims. The middlemen then use the pool of money and gamble with it. Health insurance has gone up some 120% in the last decade. And will do so again especially when their investment, well your paid in premiums, go awry.

The issue isnt government health care, no one is proposing that.  Its breaking up the insurance union...umm association  [cartel] of junket monkeys.

But when a union, yes AHIP is like a union, band together, like a cartel, they use legislation to protect profits. As for Jims socialism picture up there. Oddly the one with the gun is in red.

elected politickspointing a gun at the taxpayer. Arent subisidies a form of corporate socialism? Bailouts a form of corporate welfare?  When did the founding fathers say america should be an empire?  Where does it say in order to form a more perfect union we need false aristoi robbing us blind thru government earmarks, subsidies and grants and cronyism?

So many have fallen into the us vs them mentality when its them against us. Capitalism is the replacement of the currency with credit and debit. And guess who just printed some 600 trillion in money thru opaque derivatives bets?

Obama is doing what wall street wants. Same as Dubya. Privatize the profits and socialize the debt. Geithner was a protege of Paulson. Wall street is running the FED the treasury and also the SEC [Storch]

Its not socialism, its not conservatism.  Its a kleptocracy. And both parties are in on the scam.

But hey, if you want Halliburton running things expect to get electrocuted by a bed pan as your recovering from tainted food and water


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"Americans have chosen to surrender their freedom and liberty for safety and security. We’ve decided it is too much work to support freedom. We have allowed our government to be overrun by the military industrial complex, the financial industrial complex and the healthcare industrial complex."

...and one more:  We have allowed our society to be overrun by the media-government complex.

"The safety and security we think we have is an illusion. We have neither. These deals with the devil will lead to the economic collapse of our Republic. At that time, we will have the opportunity as described by our forefathers, to abolish this government and start anew. Until that time we are destined to lose more freedom and undergo a long period of crisis and misery. It was our choice."

VERY WELL SAID!  The Germans began their march to a totalitarian State in the Oh-Ohs, the earliest part of the 1900s, with a takeover of Healthcare.  They were one of the earliest to adopt Universal Health Care, and one of the earliest to fall to Tyranny.  The economic collapse that followed the Rape of Versailles led straight to a change of government, not in Form, but in Substance, with a terrible, long period of crisis and misery.

Now here we are in the next Oh-Ohs.  Even if we don't cede another layer of Liberty (what and when we eat, exercise, drink, drive etc.) to Fedzilla now, as this bill will accomplish if adopted, we are headed straight for economic pain like none but our Elders knew at the same time Germany made its choice.  Those Elders also chose a change in the Substance but not the Form of our government, the Substance of the Path we are on with this bill.  It's the New New Deal, and it is certainly Social, but not Security.

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Churchill was in the business of maintaining power for his class.  Of course he wasn't a fan of socialism.

What nobody talks about here is the Abject Failure of Capitalism. Its the Elephant in the room nobody on this Burning Platform wants to admit.  Now that we have THIS failure on the books, the prior failures of some socialist states seem quite small by comparison.

I am reminded of the old saw about Computers and Human Error. "To Err is Human, to REALLY fuck up takes a Computer"

In this case it would be, "To fail economically takes Socialism, to destroy a Civilization takes Capitalism"

RE

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 Health Care 'Reform' is nothing less than CONTROL. Obama's advisers already have their rationing plan developed.

Here's my spin ( fully accurate ) Dr. Scott Geller: Obamacare should frighten anyone who is or plans to grow old | news-press.com | The News-Press

Your MD 8 years from now will follow Gubbmint edicts, not what's best for you. Plagiarize it if you wish and have it published in your local paper. Bitching here will do nothing. 

Check out the articles at www.aapsonline.org.

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