Why is no one talking about this terrorist attack?
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Army: Fort Hood suspect shouted religious slogan before firing
13 die, 28 in stable condition; gunman still hospitalized
By SCOTT HUDDLESTON and SIG CHRISTENSON
CHRONICLE NEWS SERVICE
FORT HOOD — An Army psychiatrist about to be deployed to a combat zone overseas shouted a religious slogan in Arabic before fatally shooting 13 people — including 12 soldiers — and injuring 28 others at this sprawling Central Texas military post on Thursday.
Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the base commander at Fort Hood, said on NBC's Today Show that witnesses heard Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan shout "Allahu Akbar!" before opening fire. The phrase means "God is great!" in Arabic.
The death toll rose by one overnight when one of the wounded died. Today, Col. John Rossi said all the wounded were in stable condition, including the suspect and the policewoman who shot him, Sgt. Kimberly Munley, 34.
“It was an amazing and an aggressive performance by this police officer,” said Cone, praising her for stopping the gunman despite already being wounded herself.
Identities of the dead and other wounded were not released this morning as notification of family members continued, Rossi said.
Hasan is accused of attacking his fellow soldiers about 1:30 p.m. at the Soldier Readiness Processing Center, where troops waited to see doctors as they prepared to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan — or return from combat. Armed with two pistols, he shot more than 40 people before military police and civilian police officers responded, officials said. He was wounded by a civilian policewoman, who was injured in the exchange, police said.
Rossi said Hasan, whose assault lasted about 10 minutes, was armed with weapons that were not issued by the military.
“We’re looking into whether (the guns) were registered on the post, which was required,” Rossi said.
Col. Steven Braverman, a hospital commander at Fort Hood, said Hasan worked under him at the Carl N. Darnall Army Medical Center.
“He took care of soldiers with behavioral health problems and evaluated people with disabilities,” Braverman said.
He said there was no indication prior to the shooting that Hasan was unable to provide those services.
“We had no problems with his job performance while he worked at Darnall,” Braverman said.
Hasan had been notified before the shooting that he was going to deploy to Afghanistan, he added.
Early Thursday, Hasan showed no signs of worry or stress when he stopped at 7-Eleven for his daily breakfast of hash browns, said Jeannie Strickland, the store's manager.
“He came in (Thursday) morning just like normal,” she said.
However, surveillance video showed he was wearing religious attire rather than typical civilian or medical clothing. Strickland said that was unusual and she asked him about it, but he replied that he did that sometimes.
A few hours later, officials said, the Virginia native began his rampage on the post. Fort Hood, near Killeen, is the largest active duty post in the United States, with 340 square miles of facilities and homes. More than 50,000 military personnel and about 27,000 family members and civilian support personnel live and work there.
Calling it a “terrible tragedy,” Cone, the post commander, said officials “believe the evidence indicates it was a single shooter.”
Cone did not speculate on a motive, but the Army released a statement saying the shootings didn't appear to be an act of political terrorism. Two others were questioned and later released.
Postings drew attention
Federal law enforcement officials told the Associated Press that Hasan had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats.
One of the Web posts that authorities reviewed is a blog that equates suicide bombers with a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades.
“To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause,” said the Internet posting. “Scholars have paralled (sic) this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers.”
The officials say Hasan appeared to have made the postings, but they are still trying to confirm that he was the author. They say an official investigation was not opened.
Killeen police officials late Thursday said their officers were at Nidal's apartment on the outskirts of Fort Hood.
“We do have officers up there assisting the federal agents,” said Killeen police spokeswoman Carroll Smith. Smith also said that the department's SWAT officers were sent to the apartment.
In Fort Hood, Maria Treviño, who works on the post at Darnall, said she was on the phone with a woman who was at the readiness center when the shots erupted. Treviño said she heard screaming and gunshots before she hung up to get help.
“They just started screaming, ‘Don't let him in, don't let him in, they're shooting at us,' ” she said. “I pray they didn't get hurt. It was horrible. We're still scared over here.”
Treviño said that soon after the call, bloodied victims began arriving at the hospital, which was on lockdown.
The post, too, was on lockdown for several hours as authorities combed the scene and collected evidence. An online message at 3:06 p.m. from a person who lives on Fort Hood said she was “locked in my post housing. scared. don't know where the shooters are.” A few minutes later, the sender, whose My-Space page indicates she is the wife of a soldier, wrote, “All I hear are sirens telling us to stay indoors. can't hear any gunfire.”
Base doctors converged
Lt. Col. Larry Masullo, acting chief of the post's emergency hospital, said that within minutes of the first shooting report, his staff began calling every physician, nurse and medic available.
About 100 medical personnel converged at Darnall as teams were assembled into trauma bays, he said.
Maj. Stephen Beckwith, a doctor and the post’s EMS director, said shots were still being fired when paramedics arrived on the scene
One paramedic, who began treating people as officials said Hasan continued to fire, later suffered an “acute stress response,” he said.
Sgt. Andrew Hagerman, a military police officer, had been patrolling a housing area when he heard reports of a shooting. He said he first suspected kids with firecrackers but raced toward the scene when he realized what was happening.
"You don't hesitate at all," said Hagerman, who has deployed to Iraq. "And your main goal is to take the shooter down."
Hagerman saw Hasan, unconscious shirtless and in combat pants, on the ground as paramedics treated him.
Beckwith said 16 trauma beds were available in the hospital, and medics and doctors treated patients quickly enough that they never ran out of beds.
More than half of the patients had suffered multiple gunshot wounds, he said. Most of the injured soldiers were young.
When you’re in Iraq, you’re prepared for these things to happen, he said.
But he added: “It’s tragic and frustrating to see this happen on the post.”
Staff writers Peggy Fikac in Austin, Vianna Davila and Valentino Lucio in San Antonio, R.G. Ratcliffe at Fort Hood, Gary Scharrer in Killeen, Mike Glenn in Houston and Gary Martin in Washington and Chronicle news partner KHOU-TV contributed to this report.
265 Comments
StuckInNJ
First, Obama.
It was my girlfriend's birthday yesterday. We had a full day and I did not watch any news. So, I missed the President's remarks. A poster from the above newspaper article responded thusly
"Did anyone see Obama's statement after this happened. His first five minutes were apologizing for having to disrupt his conference and then went on to talk about the conference for a while more before even addressing what had just happened to our soldiers. It literally turned my stomach. Even worse, Obama took time at the start of the press conference to give a "shout out" to his friend Bill Thompson. To even give a shout out like a teenager on the radio is bad enough. but to give it at a press conference for fallen American soldiers is revolting. No class."
.
Any comments on Obama? Was he really that callous of a prick as the above poster said?
Daniel
This wasn't terrorism. According to the White House, this is a "Man Made Disaster".
"Obama's Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting": Obama making a 'shout out' to his brother Crow:
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html
TampaGold
Yes, he was a disgusting piece of shit, as usual. That's what you get when you elect a muslim community organizer as your president. OJT is a bitch sometimes.
On a side note, as a USA veteran, it bugs the shit out of me when the media dolts on TV say BASE instead of POST when referring to Ft Hood. The terms are not interchangeable.
This is yet another argument for carrying concealed weapons. You can't even assume safety on a military post anymore.
Whippet
It's quiet because we don't know that much yet.
One thing we do know- Islam is a CULT OF HATE AND DEATH. It has been since the woman-hating murderous letch Muhammad stole the Zoroastrian rituals and the name of the pagan moon god of Mecca 1400 years ago. It is not a religion of peace and love. So will the PC assholes just shut the f&*k up?
JimQ
I think this guy was mentally defective. No wife, no kids, listening to horror stories of war for the last 8 years day after day, and now he is told he is getting shipped to Afghanistan. He is a coward.
If he disagreed with U.S. policy he should have resigned from the military. Instead he ruins hundreds of lives in a matter of minutes. He should be executed. I assume Texas law is in affect.
StuckInNJ
Second, Muslims in America.
1) If I were President I would IMMEDIATELY close our borders to ALL muslim immigration. No more new Muslims allowed! Call me a Muslim-O-Phobe if you wish. I wear that badge with honor.
2) I would Immediately shut down CAIR and every other Islamic "charity" organization.
3) I would immediately deport every Mooslim cleric who gives a hate filled sermon calling for the destruction of America.
At some point there will be a backlash against Muslims living here. How many more terrorist attacks will Americans endure before we start shooting back? Perhaps, if it gets bad enough, we will open up internment camps ... ala, the Japanese in WWII.
The goal of Islam is world domination. It is Allah's will in the Koran. Anyone who doesn't believe this has their head stuck in the sand. I am going to post two seperate articles for your consideration as to whether or not I am a fear monger .. or, telling the truth.
StuckInNJ
The Coming Muslim Takeover of Europe
By Andre Zantonavitch (from http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/06/the_coming_muslim_takeover_of_1.html)
[Book review of While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West From Within by Bruce Bawer; published February of 2006; 237 pages; $23.95]
This stunner of a book about Continental Islam has two main themes. The first is that Europe has a horrific Muslim immigration and reproduction problem. European Muslims are expanding their numbers almost exponentially, and they are not being assimilated or integrated into European culture. This radically new and explosive demographic, according to the author, is not being converted to Western liberalism or adopting Western life—styles.
While Europe Slept argues that while Europe is currently only about ten percent Islamic —— vs. two percent for America —— if present trends continue it will only take a generation or two for Muslims to become the majority. The once—noble Continent will become what intellectual fellow—traveler Bat Ye'or in 2005 called "Eurabia." The shocking claim by Bruce Bawer is that well before 2050, most of Europe is likely to become an outpost of Islamdom governed by Sharia. Europe will be alien to Western culture and an enemy of Western Civilization.
The second theme of this almost shattering book is that Europe today is a hellhole of leftist multiculturalism, far worse than anything in America, and even far worse than almost anyone in America suspects. American expatriate Bawer —— who has lived the past ten years in various European countries, mostly Holland and Norway —— is almost uniformly horrified by every country he resides in or visits. According to him, political correctness and multiculturalism are "a habit of thought that in America is an annoyance but in Europe is a veritable religion."
Bawer excoriates his European friends for their propensity to display phony "respect" and "understanding" of the various foreigners in their midst, especially Muslims. He blasts their cult—like belief in the mantra of multiculturalism and their unlimited "belief in peace and reconciliation through dialog," even with Muslims who emphatically reject peace, reconciliation, and dialog as methodologies or ideals.
While Europe Slept also makes the interesting observation that there is virtually no American—style "religious right" to oppose growing Muslim power. Virtually the whole Continent is atheist or de facto atheist. Thus in Europe the religious right is the Muslims.
This leads to some odd political terminology and alliances. Bruce Bawer consistently champions what he calls "the liberal resistance," but he doesn't seem to know where to find it or even how to describe it. What he does describe, in sickening detail, is how much the multicultural left utterly protects the Islamic religious right. These two have formed an evil alliance which seems all but unstoppable in the heart of Western Civilization.
Bawer himself is a little confused about what he is. He edited a book slamming America's multicultural left called Beyond Queer: Challenging Gay Left Orthodoxy (1996). But he's also written a book called Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity (1998), which trashes the religious right. In the end, Bawer calls himself a part—time "libertarian" and is essentially a strong Western or classical liberal.
This book is an easy and fun read. But it's also horrifying. And despite the speed with which its mere three chapters can be consumed, it has plenty of documentation for its claims from almost every nation in Europe. Bawer, who is also a translator, speaks Dutch and Norwegian fluently, and is conversant in several other European languages as well. This insider—perspective helps provide quotes, incidents, and stories from all over the Continent —— many based on personal experience.
In the end, this book essentially writes off Europe(!). It argues that America is the last hope for Western Civilization and the world. Although' While Europe Slept tries to be positive at times —— and does offer suggestions to ameliorate the coming demographic nightmare —— ultimately Bawer concludes
"Europe is steadily committing suicide, and perhaps all we can do is look on in horror."
Perhaps the most terrifying part of the book is the way Muslims everywhere are already confidently planning to rule Europe and make it part of the caliphate. A popular Swedish t—shirt reads simply "2030 —— then we take over." With France still only 12% Muslim, the leading Parisian newspaper Le Monde seems to have already surrendered. In 2004 it praised France for "the fact of its having and accepting the role of the first Muslim country of Europe."
How did Europe ever reach such a dead—end? The problem began rather recently, in the late '60s and '70s, with a temporary labor shortage and subsequent special "guest worker" programs. But the shortage is long gone and the Muslims are still there. And as Bawer points out repeatedly, they aren't being integrated into the various populations as in America. Almost all Muslims live in suburban ghettos and are somewhat rejected by the native and slightly nativist whites. The Muslims, in turn, utterly reject their new country and its Western liberal ideology. The vast majority —— even second generation kids —— aren't fluent in the different, local European tongues.
And this growing cancer is wildly exasperated by a phenomenon unknown in America called "fetching" marriages. Males from Europe use "family unification" laws to being in illiterate females they've never met from their former country, and then marry them —— usually as uneducated teenagers. The young girls are then kept at home in a virtual prison where they reproduce wildly. These new citizens never learn the local languages or customs but they do qualify for vast welfare benefits and quickly produce more Islamist—oriented males and slave—like females. Then the process starts all over again.
The effect of all these Muslims on the life—styles of Europeans is simply remarkable. Homophobia is way up, as is opposition to abortion and divorce. "Honor" killings are rampant as is female "circumcision." In many parts of Europe all women must wear a scarf covering their face lest they be deemed whores and "for everyone." By right, any Muslim or Muslim gang can rape any uncovered girl. Afterwards, the girl is properly killed by relatives to end the "shame" of her family.
The rapists, naturally, go unpunished. And because native Europeans differ on this practice, Muslims scornfully think of all white men as weak and effeminate, for not being able to control their women. They think of all normally—dressed Western women as honorless low—lifes and unloved harlots, valuable only for group violation and subsequent termination.
Among the nightmare statistics cited by the book are these:
1. 80% of the women in Oslo's shelter system are Muslims fleeing abusive families, husbands, and boyfriends;
2. Danish Muslims make up 5% of the population but 40% of the welfare rolls;
3. refugee—friendly Switzerland is already 20% Muslim;
4. the world's most wonderful city (in my view) Amsterdam is now majority Muslim;
5. 70% of all French prisoners are Muslim;
6. the four London bombers that killed 56 in July of 2005 received almost a million dollars in welfare benefits.
And the bad news in this book just keeps coming. Bruce Bawer and While Europe Slept are relentless. This book is praised by Mona Charen, Abe Foxman, Daniel Pipes, and Victor Davis Hanson, among others. But it doesn't offer much hope. Because of a kind of maniacal political correctness, otherwise civilized and enlightened Europeans seem doomed to Muslim domination in the near future. They are incurably infected with multiculturalism and a subsequent
"unprincipled spirit of compromise and capitulation that is guiding today's Europe, step by step, to the gallows."
StuckInNJ
ISLAM AND THE PLAN TO CONQUER THE USA
A refugee from the Muslim Middle East thinks he has discovered Islam’s 20-point plan for conquering the United States by 2020
Anis Shorrosh, author of ”Islam Revealed” and ”The True Furqan,” is a Christian Arab-American who emigrated from Arab-controlled Jerusalem in January 1967.
”The following is my analysis of Islamic invasion of America, the agenda of Islamists and visible methods to take over America by the year 2020,” Shorrosh says. ”Will Americans continue to sleep through this invasion as they did when we were attacked on 9/11?”
1. Terminate America’s freedom of speech by replacing it with statewide and nationwide hate-crime bills.
2. Wage a war of words using black leaders like Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities who promote Islam as the religion of African-Americans while insisting Christianity is for whites only. What they fail to tell African-Americans is that it was Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves. In fact, the Arabic word for black and slave is the same, ”Abed.”
3. Engage the American public in dialogues, discussions, debates in colleges, universities, public libraries, radio, TV, churches and mosques on the virtues of Islam. Proclaim how it is historically another religion like Judaism and Christianity with the same monotheistic faith.
4. Nominate Muslim sympathizers to political office to bring about favorable legislation toward Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting.
5. Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the Internet as possible by buying the related corportations or a controlling stock.
6. Yield to the fear of the imminent shut-off of the lifeblood of America – black gold. America’s economy depends on oil and 41 percent of it comes from the Middle East.
7. Yell ”foul, out-of-context, personal interpretation, hate crime, Zionist, un- American, inaccurate interpretation of the Quran” anytime Islam is criticized or the Quran is analyzed in the public arena.
8. Encourage Muslims to penetrate the White House, specifically with Islamists who can articulate a marvelous and peaceful picture of Islam. Acquire government positions and get membership in local school boards. Train Muslims a medical doctors to dominate the medical field, research and pharmaceutical l companies (Ever notice how numerous Muslim doctors in America are, when their countries need them more desperately than America?) Take over the computer industry. Establish Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the U.S. to connect planners of Islamization in a discreet way.
[Stuck’s Note: Well, it sure as hell looks like they succeeded with this step!]
9. Accelerate Islamic demographic growth via:
· Massive immigration (100,000 annually since 1961).
· Use no birth control whatsoever – every baby of Muslim parents is automatically a Muslim and cannot choose another religion later.
· Muslim men must marry American women and Islamize them (10,000 annually). Then divorce them and remarry every five years – since one can’t legally marry four at one time. This is a legal solution in America.
· Convert angry, alienated black inmates and turn them into militants (so far 2,000 released inmates have joined al-Qaida worldwide). Only a few ‘’sleeper cells” have been captured in Afghanistan and on American soil.
10. Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1,500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are currently 300 exclusively Muslim schools in the U.S. which teach loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution. In January of 2002, Saudi Arabia’s Embassy in Washington mailed 4,500 packets of the Quran and videos promoting Islam to America’s high schools – free of charge. Saudi Arabia would not allow the U.S. to reciprocate.
11. Provide very sizeable monetary Muslim grants to colleges and universities in America to establish ”Centers for Islamic studies” with Muslim directors to promote Islam in higher-education institutions.
12. Let the entire world know through propaganda, speeches, seminars, local and national media that terrorists have hijacked Islam, when in truth, Islam hijacked the terrorists.
13. Appeal to the historically compassionate and sensitive Americans for sympathy and tolerance towards Muslims in America who are portrayed as mainly immigrants from oppressed countries.
14. Nullify America’s sense of security by manipulating the intelligence community with misinformation. Periodically terrorize Americans with reports of impending attacks on bridges, tunnels, water supplies, airports, apartment buildings and malls.
15. Form riots and demonstrations in the prison system demanding Islamic Sharia as the way of life, not America’s justice system.
16. Open numerous charities throughout the U.S., but use the funds to support Islamic terrorism with American dollars.
17. Raise interest in Islam on America’s campuses by insisting freshman take at least one course on Islam.
18. Unify the numerous Muslim lobbies in Washington, mosques, Islamic student centers, educational organizations, magazines and papers by Internet and an annual convention to coordinate plans, propagate the faith and engender news in the media.
19. Send intimidating messages and messengers
20. Applaud Muslims as loyal citizens of the U.S. by spotlighting their voting record as the highest percentage of all minority and ethic groups in America.
Boudicca
Fort Hood was an Islamic terrorist attack committed by a Muslim just practicing his religion. Muslims in the U.S. military is totally insane. There is no prohibition in Islam against murdering non-Muslims and the Koran dictates that a Muslim can only be loyal to the Koran and Islam. The PC U.S. military is responsible for this attack and other similar attacks.
TLaCour
What disgusts me worst is a tough call, but the constant reference on MSM and talk radio to the "Tragedy" in Texas makes me puke.
Call a spade a spade. At best, the creep was a terrorist whose cell didn't come through. This isn't "traaaagedy" it is War.
StuckInNJ
I AM SO FRIGGIN PISSED OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, I did a little research.
Here is President Obama's comments re Ft Hood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hiw8iXdMM (By the way, giving a "shout out" to Dr. Joe Medicine Crow "that Congressional Medal of Honor winner" is false. He won the Congressional Medal Of Freedom! Obama is such a f'ing douchebag.(
By way of contrast, here is President Reagan's address on the Challenger disaster;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEjXjfxoNXM
Forgetting the politics of both Presidents, just focus on the leadership, the empathy, and just the overall "feel". One President is a narcissistic, cold, flippant, uncaring, piece of shit. The other is not. I trust you know the difference.
Anonymous
Islam is for hate and death and murder. Post as anonymous or you will be murdered.
Robmu1
Obama was/is a disgrace to this country and the people who serve in the armed forces. When he says 'don't jump to conclusions', he means that he doesn't want people to blame those who are influenced by his buddy Jeremiah Wright and others like him. There is still another year before the Democrats are massacred in the mid-term elections, and three more years before Obama is crushed in the 2012 elections. There is much damage to live through before Obama is dismissed as a total catastrophe. Make plans - the federal government wants to take your money and give it to people who will vote for Obama, and the people who vote for Obama think that the government SHOULD take your money. Obama will create an entire new culture of cheating and lying, which will be done by the people who don't want to have their money confiscated by Obama. Obama IS creating a massive, angry group of citizens who are sick of being insulted by him. I know I am.
PeteB
StuckInNJ, Whippet, TampaGold, and Anonymous,
So when are you guys gonna go and lynch the first muslim you see? Bunch of ignorant bigots.
bloodworm
Jim, I would suggest removing this thread and remind people that this "religious war" stuff does not belong here.
TheBurningPlatform.com Posting Rules, Code of Ethics
1. Upload, distribute, copy or content that is unlawful, libelous, harmful, pornographic, threatening, or ethnically bigoted that would violate another person's rights, constitute or encourage a criminal offense, encourage direct civil insurrection, or violate any local, state, national or nation law.
Anonymous
Blood, there is nothing here that violates the Code of Ethics. Everybody is pissed because they are sick of people like you who fellate the haters
JimQ
The site is open to all opinions. There is a lot of anger building in this country. Most of it is warranted. I think most Americans would tear this guy apart piece by piece if they could get their hands on him.
I don't believe every Muslim hates America. Their religion evidently teaches hatred, so I think it is up to Muslims to convince us otherwise.
Swashbuckler
Such harsh reactions! Calm down people. We need to accept our Muslim friends as brothers. After all, they only believe that our way of life and their religion are incompatible, and of course we naturally must be murdered as a consequence. In the form 0f 3000+ innocent Americans slaughtered on 911, in a most painful incineration. Where of course they broadcast on television hundreds of thousands of their citizens dancing in the streets with glee over the carnage. And merely because they publicly behead American boys on Al Jazeera, their national TV, is nothing to get all riled up about, ESPECIALLY after our country's atrocious behavior of committing what amounts to a college fraternity prank at Abhu Grab(or however it is spelled). The 911 bombings and public beheadings by them pale in comparison to our despicable treatment of them in Guantanamo, where we provide them with prayer mats and kosher food. Why, our Gitmo treatment of them alone is at least worth another 911 or maybe a richly deserved suitcase nuke in one of our major cities. Long live Muhammed. P.S. ---- Muhammed and all of Islam eat shit. Respectfully, Swash.
bloodworm
Anon: I did not give my opinion either way on this subject matter. Pls dont accuse me of anything.
It's getting harder to find posts on this site that actually deal with the economy.
Robmu1
Bloodworm, check the site out some more. This is free form - economy, sports, politics, humor. You'll need a thick skin to hang with this crowd, and if you can take it, you'll find yourself coming here 1st thing in the morning.
Whippet
Well said, Robmu1. Bloodworm- there really is nothing here that violates the code of ethics. This site is a rare place to come and say it like it really is- no pulling punches, no political correctness gestapo, no editing. Occassionally tempers flare and things touch or cross the line- but we are mature adults that are capable of bringing the ball back into the court and showing tough respect toward each other. We extend the same to you- if you do not agree that Islam is a cult following of a child-molesting, woman-hating rapist, I respect your opinion but would direct you toward some facts.
http://www.amazon.com/Sword-Prophet-History-Theology-Impact/dp/1928653111/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257534503&sr=8-1
You can pick up a used copy for $2 and join the discussion
gmm777
This site is primarily dedicated to the economy. Some of it is so far over my head, I am humbled by my lack of knowledge. Having said that, there are so many things that take place the directly or indirectly affect the ecomomy that need to be addressed. I have to stand with Whippet, StuckinNJ, Robmu1 and the others. This impacts the economy and Jim Quinn needs to have this forum open. Keep up the good works folks.
Anonymous4
Dear follows of Islam - I own a fairly large business. I am going to discriminate against you as retribution for yet another one of your cult murdering innocent people. I will follow the rules and at the very end of the hiring process, I will decide against hiring you. This will be because I am afraid that you will murder some of my other employees, or me. Also, I am posting as Anonymous4 as Anonymous above recommended, since you would probably hunt me down and murder me. Or convince one of your fellow 'believers' to murder me. Go fuck yourself.
Anonymous
all religions are shit with no exeptions.
Islam is still at the middle age of its devellopement. if you look back what Christians were doing around the years 14xx, you will find that saying that the earth is turning around the sun was enough to end burned on a public display.
religion and policy are brothers. it's all about controlling groups, small or big.
most muslims don't care the fuck of the supposed message of islams. extremists are the 5% that piss all others. since wars and retaliations are aimed at a majority, terrorists reach their goal that is finding new recruit.
It's important to keep clear ideas, or you enter the terrorist's game.
Skyprince
I LOVE TBP, and agree with 70% to 80% of the posts. And those with which I disagree seem to result in a healthy and stimulating debate void of personal attacks and broad brush and brash pronouncements. It is good. But this thread is disturbing to me. It is so full of a generalized racism that it is scary. One post suggests we may have to open up the internment camps as we did in WW II. Another speaks of deporting Muslims...seemingly regardless of citizenship. I guess the Constitution and Bill of Rights we tout so proudly are only good for certain groups. Did this Ft. Hood shooting cause all this anger toward Muslims? Or has it been there all along...a seething hotbed of anger directed at a people. I suspect the shooting was simply a catalyst. The guy was deranged. He could have been a Methodist, Jew or whatever. What he did doesn't appear to have any relationship to Islam.. But even if it did, it still doesn't give a green light to what seems to be a Kristallnacht in the making. Germany, 1938...Hitler and his posse has everyone convinced their problems are all the fault of the Jews. There are eerily similar things being said here just as in Nazi Germany in 1938.
If we are to indict the Muslim faith, we must indict all faiths....for at some time in most of their histories, violence and anarchy were the rule. Certainly, the Christian faith had its moments, and the Bible has many references to intolerance, cruelty and violence. The "its them or us" thing is as old as mankind. Shouldn't we be able to get beyond that by now? The broad generalizations that are necessary to make these statements are no different than those incorporated by the extreme Muslims who want world domination. Niether is right or good.
My fear is that this anti-Muslim feeling in our country will be used as a tool by one or several of our leaders some day to consolidate power and start another war...a big war...a devastating war. If you think our freedoms now are being cut away, just wait. It won't be Obama...it will be his replacement once Obama fails. When people are hurting, they seek a target. They are angry. The Muslims and Middle East will be the perfect opportunity for our new despot leader to use to consolidate power. And threads like this show how easy it will be to play right into their hands. Hope I'm wrong.
Anonymous
WWW.THERELIGIONOFPEACE.COM
JUST ANOTHER BATTLE IN THE WAR : ISLAM VS. THE WORLD.....
SILLY infidels.....when we we learn.......
Whippet
I respectfully disagree with you on this one, Skyprince. I am with you on internment camps and other clear violations of Constitutional rights of Muslim American citizens- the visions of Kristallnacht are a good point. I disagree with the Wars of Choice in Iraq and Afganistan, and would prefer we take every American soldier out of the desert bases and bring them home. I would prefer we give the finger to the Oil Sheiks and send enough Predator drones into Iran to send them back to the Stone Age they recently crawled out of. But you couldn't be more wrong on your indictment of "all religions". This bullshit about all religions being the same is Tenured Reeducationist Speak. We must go to the fundamentals of the religions, and start there.
The Ku'ran, besides being a piece of soiled TP, is about the most violent manifesto in the history of wackos. Do some research on what it ACTUALLY SAYS and I'm sure you will agree. Convert or die. Women are property at best, sex slaves at worst. Children are chattel. Sharia law gives no quarter to non-Muslims (with the exception that the other Abrahamic religions' ascribers may live as slaves to Muslim masters, with no rights in Muslim courts.)
Now, look at the the New Testament. Violence exists, but is universally condemned in the life of the believer. Men are commanded to love women, and lay down their life for their wife (Eph. 5). Believers are commanded to pray for and leave at peace with their enemies.
Application of the Kuranic "scripture" leads to violent, Jihadist behavior. Application of the New Testament leads to Mother Theresas. Abdication of the Kuran yields "moderate" peaceful Muslims. Abdication of the New Testament leads to witch burnings and persecution of 15th century scientists.
IraK
WTC bombing, 911, Fort Hood - all attacks on the United States by Muslims. When we were at war with Japan, the Japanese were rounded up and kept an eye on. Shouldn't that be done with Muslims now? Before Iran gets nuclear weapons and uses them to destroy Israel as Iran's president plans, shouldn't we make a preventive attack on Iran. Then shouldn't we follow the attack with the completion of the garrisoning of the Arab Middle East just as we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our safety and the preservation of our freedoms require it.
Robmu1
Skyprince, you make some good points. Please consider that much of the anger you are reacting to could be dissipated by Islamic leadership condemning the Islamist violence. Don't hold your breath.
StuckInNJ
I love TBP also. And I like your posts, Skyprince. I disagree with this one however.
I did NOT suggest that we open internment camps. I suggested (or, it was my intent) that internment camps may be the end result if Muslim attacks against America continue. When people are sufficiently angry and afraid they will act. History shows that internment camps in the USA are possible ... it may very well happen again.
It was also my post that suggested deporting Muslims. But the quote is incomplete, and hence, a dishonest representation. What I said was, "I would immediately deport every Mooslim cleric who gives a hate filled sermon calling for the destruction of America.". I don't give a damn if such a cleric is a citizen or not. Deport him or jail him. There are limits to freedom of speech. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theatre just for the hell of it. If deaths resulted, you would be prosecuted. Preaching and inciting the destruction of America is treason. We can not, and must not, allow such people to hide behind citizenship.
"He could have been a Methodist, Jew or whatever. What he did doesn't appear to have any relationship to Islam."
How many Methodists or Jews do you know that shout out, "God is great", or "Jehovah is great" prior to murdering a large group of people? ZERO!! He ABSOLUTELY has a relationship to Islam. This is now know. He was never a convert. He was Islam from birth. This is straight from his cousin's mouth who was interviewed on cable news yesterday.
"If we are to indict the Muslim faith, we must indict all faiths....for at some time in most of their histories, violence and anarchy were the rule. Certainly, the Christian faith had its moments, and the Bible has many references to intolerance, cruelty and violence."
No. No. No. No. And, No. You want to indict the Bahai's? You want to indite Buddists? You want to indict Mormons? Ridicules. Yes, Christianity had its moments ... the key word being HAD. Christianity has changed to fit in with the 21st century. How many Christians do you know who stone an adulteress? Yet, Muslims do that to this very day. Their shit religion has not moved one day past its 7th century violent roots.
"My fear is that this anti-Muslim feeling in our country will be used as a tool by one or several of our leaders some day to consolidate power and start another war...a big war...a devastating war."
We are already at war with Islam. I hope you come to realize that at some point.
Debtless Horsemen
Are you people serious? If any of you claim to be any type of religion you should be ashamed of yourself. What ever happened to forgiveness, that's taught in basically all religions. Muslims believe that you should respect all fellow human beings. This holds true for Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam. Just because a guy goes wacko and is Islamic does not give you the right to reign holy hell against all followers of a certain religion. When you do this you are no better than this guy. Hate breeds hate, and there sure seems to be alot of it in this forum. No matter how despicable the act, you must learn to forgive the perpetrator.
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. No truer words were ever spoken.
JimQ
Nobody knows which religion they will be born into. I don't think because you are born into a Muslim family you automatically hate Americans and Christians. It is the hard core zealots who hate us and want us dead. There are a billion Muslims in the world. Is it .01%, 1%, 10%, 50%, or 100% who hate us and will do anything to destroy us?
I truly do not know. If it is .01% then we are talking about 100,000 haters. I would hope it is on the low end of the scale, but I'm not sure.
Zara
I don't blame anyone for beating up on Islam today. With that in mind, I thought I'd share how one guy does it in another country.
www.fireonquran.com
ReverseEngineer
This isn't about religion. Its about what happens when your soldiers start killing themselves.
[In May, Sgt. John Russell, 44, went on a rampage at Camp Liberty in Iraq, killing five soldiers in an anti-stress clinic. Sgt. Joseph Bozicevich, 39, murdered two superiors at a base south of Baghdad in September 2008.
Suicides are also on the rise. Army suicides are up 37% since 2006, and the military rate is higher than the civilian rate.
Since the 2003 Iraq invasion, 75 Fort Hood soldiers have killed themselves, nine this year. That prompted the base to take steps to reduce stress on soldiers, including cutting work hours and ordering them to be home in time for dinner.
Experts say fighting two wars has put unprecedented stress on soldiers forced to endure multiple deployments in combat zones where battle is unconventional.]
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/06/2009-11-06_why_did_fort_hood_killer_snap.html
John Russell was NOT a Muslim. Hasan was a Muslim. They BOTH went Postal. You folks have latched onto entirely the wrong aspect of this story.
RE
StuckInNJ
Three things Americans MUST know but don't.
1. There are VERY few secular Muslims -- the only "good" Muslims in my opinion.
2. There is NO SUCH THING as a "moderate" Muslim. A moderate Muslim is one who won't actually kill an infidel. However, they condone or at least sympathize with the concept. Some moderation, huh?
3. And here is the biggie; MOST MUSLIMS ARE MUSLIM FIRST -- AMERICAN SECOND! Their loyalty is first, foremost, and only to their religion.
From the website islamfortoday ... a quote from the president of the Islamic Circle of North America regarding Islam and US Citizenship (this is not an isolated quote, you can find such anti-American feelings on virtually every Islamic website).
“OF COURSE MUSLIMS ARE NOT OBLIGED TO OBEY LAWS AND POLICIES WHICH ARE SPECIFICALLY AGAINST ISLAMIC BELIEFS”
He also said that the U.S. constitution provides Muslim citizens the opportunity for dissent and change and recommended that all Muslims avail themselves of this opportunity.
So .. there you have it ... use the Constitution as a mechanism to subvert the Constitution!!
Anonymous
Obama said"don't jump to conclusions " today. What a freakin' retard.
This ain't a war . Its a massacre and THEY are killing us. When will a real war start??
wcmillionairre
Muslims and Christians are both violent extremists. However, judging by the cultures and civilizations which have developed under each theology, there is one clear choice for individual freedom...and there is no tolerance by either cult for defeat! Victory equals extermination of my enemies (excuse me, the enemies of God/Allah). YEE-HAW!
wcmillionairre
Great job, Barry! KEEP IT UP!
dholsop
Fort Hood:
The guy just got more and more devout, and as he did, his veneration of jihad martyrs began to grow. That is why the Muslim world silent or commends this kind of violence. Mohamed was a violent man and so were his followers. They spread their religion through violence. They smile in your face now, but when they get the upper hand...LOOK OUT! American Muslims show some level of distancing themselves from this kind of violence, only because they are still in the diplomatic phase. If their power grows, ours will be swine's blood. They are trying to silence criticism because most folks don't know that the Muslim religion is compelled to govern.
This is hard to relate to because of our traditions, it is NOT their tradition. The Nation of Islam is not just a slogan.
If this was a KKK killing blacks, there would be great outrage...even if the guy was crazy. We have in our midst something much more dangerous than that!
Allah Akbar!!! blam blam blam....
This man was not crazy, just devoted.
Our Gutless wonder of a President lowers the American Flag.
Anonymous
you americans are hippocrites. you condem mohammed, and therebye insult Allah, for the actions of very few nation of Islam people. what about the bombs you drop on Iraq where innocent children are killed or there arms and legs knocked off. what did they ever do to your country tell me that. your generals call it colateral damage, an excuse to make right murdering our people. what about your president George Bush who has killed millions of innocent people in the world? why ok to kill us but not ok for us to protect our countries? americans sre evil haters
Jrant
Anon, you're in the 3rd grade?
lou27
I read where he was ridiculed mercilessly by the soldiers after the 911 attacks for being muslim, tried to get a discharge but was refused. Everybody has a breaking point and who knows how they'll react.
StuckInNJ
There are some of you who don't think this was a terrorist attack. You are all wrong. This ABSOLUTELY was a terrorist attack. Ralph Peters (below) gets it. You don't. Refute it if you can,
=====================================================================================================
NEW YORK POST
Fort Hood's 9/11
By RALPH PETERS
On Thursday afternoon, a radicalized Muslim US Army officer shouting "Allahu Akbar!" committed the worst act of terror on American soil since 9/11. And no one wants to call it an act of terror or associate it with Islam.
What cowards we are. Political correctness killed those patriotic Americans at Ft. Hood as surely as the Islamist gunman did. And the media treat it like a case of non-denominational shoplifting.
This was a terrorist act. When an extremist plans and executes a murderous plot against our unarmed soldiers to protest our efforts to counter Islamist fanatics, it’s an act of terror. Period.
When the terrorist posts anti-American hate-speech on the Web; apparently praises suicide bombers and uses his own name; loudly criticizes US policies; argues (as a psychiatrist, no less) with his military patients over the worth of their sacrifices; refuses, in the name of Islam, to be photographed with female colleagues; lists his nationality as "Palestinian" in a Muslim spouse-matching program, and parades around central Texas in a fundamentalist playsuit — well, it only seems fair to call this terrorist an "Islamist terrorist."
But the president won’t. Despite his promise to get to all the facts. Because there’s no such thing as "Islamist terrorism" in ObamaWorld.
And the Army won’t. Because its senior leaders are so sick with political correctness that pandering to America-haters is safer than calling terrorism "terrorism."
And the media won’t. Because they have more interest in the shooter than in our troops — despite their crocodile tears.
Maj. Nadal Malik Hasan planned this terrorist attack and executed it in cold blood. The resulting massacre was the first tragedy. The second was that he wasn’t killed on the spot.
Hasan survived. Now the rest of us will have to foot his massive medical bills. Activist lawyers will get involved, claiming "harassment" drove him temporarily insane. There’ll be no end of trial delays. At best, taxpayer dollars will fund his prison lifestyle for decades to come, since our politically correct Army leadership wouldn’t dare pursue or carry out the death penalty.
Maj. Hasan will be a hero to Islamist terrorists abroad and their sympathizers here. While US Muslim organizations decry his acts publicly, Hasan will be praised privately. And he’ll have the last laugh.
But Hasan isn’t the sole guilty party. The US Army’s unforgivable political correctness is also to blame for the casualties at Ft. Hood.
Given the myriad warning signs, it’s appalling that no action was taken against a man apparently known to praise suicide bombers and openly damn US policy. But no officer in his chain of command, either at Walter Reed Army Medical Center or at Ft. Hood, had the guts to take meaningful action against a dysfunctional soldier and an incompetent doctor.
Had Hasan been a Lutheran or a Methodist, he would’ve been gone with the simoon. But officers fear charges of discrimination when faced with misconduct among protected minorities.
Now 12 soldiers and a security guard lie dead. 31 soldiers were wounded, 28 of them seriously. If heads don’t roll in this maggot’s chain of command, the Army will have shamed itself beyond moral redemption.
There’s another important issue, too. How could the Army allow an obviously incompetent and dysfunctional psychiatrist to treat our troubled soldiers returning from war? An Islamist whacko is counseled for arguing with veterans who’ve been assigned to his care? And he’s not removed from duty? What planet does the Army live on?
For the first time since I joined the Army in 1976, I’m ashamed of its dereliction of duty. The chain of command protected a budding terrorist who was waving one red flag after another. Because it was safer for careers than doing something about him.
Get ready for the apologias. We’ve already heard from the terrorist’s family that "he’s a good American." In their world, maybe he is.
But when do we, the American public, knock off the PC nonsense?
A disgruntled Muslim soldier murdered his officers way back in 2003, in Kuwait, on the eve of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Recently? An American mullah shoots it out with the feds in Detroit. A Muslim fanatic attacks an Arkansas recruiting station. A Muslim media owner, after playing the peace card, beheads his wife. A Muslim father runs over his daughter because she’s becoming too Westernized.
Muslim terrorist wannabes are busted again and again. And we’re assured that "Islam’s a religion of peace."
I guarantee you that the Obama administration’s non-response to the Ft. Hood attack will mock the memory of our dead.
TampaGold
This is what I've been saying all day to my bride here.
This was a terrorist attack by a radical muslim extremist.
That's an inconvenient fact that muslims in this country, especially Ayatolla Assahola Obama will have to come to terms with. I do not care how they try to spin this, it was a terrorist attack by a muslim extremist.
Veterans everywhere should be outraged by the lack of leadership and maturity shown by this administration today. You know that I am. His response was casually flippant and while the anon ackmeds that opine here are defending whatever goat their fucking today, his response told me all that I needed to know about where his head is in this drama. He's a muslim through and through and his actions speak volumes in affirmation.
Did you ever believe in your wildest imagination that the people of the USA would get so duped as to elect a muslim for president?
You've just got to love political correctness.
God help us all.
StuckInNJ
are we 100% sure he yelled "Halla Akbar". maybe he yelled "I want a big Mac" and was misunderstood. It took too long for him and blew the fuses.
IraK
This Ft. Hood massacre should be as great a benefit to Israel, the United States and the West as 9/11 was. The massacre has the makings of being a galvanizing event. If the reaction to this "...Let's Talk" discussion topic is any indication of the feeling of the American people, they should be ready to support the beginning of the final solution to the Arab/Muslin problem. Perhaps, as some have suggested, nuclear weapons should be used. Perhaps, as others argue, biological agents, such as smallpox should be used. Whatever the method, I get the impression from reading most of you TBP commentators on this topic that the time has come to reclaim the Jewish/Christian heritage of the West and fight a major battle for control and occupation of the Middle East. I agree. Nothing else will defeat "Demography is Destiny."
Jrant
Maybe he yelled, "I need more ones for the strip club before I murder in the name of Islam!"..what a fraud.
Swashbuckler
This discussion has morphed into a one-sided massacre. Listen up, you stinking diaper- heads from the middle east. You need to abandon your beloved pastimes long enough to contribute to this dialogue. Tell your camels that you won't be able to service them for a few hours, they'll just have to abstain from sex until you've blogged with us long enough here to make it a fair, unbiased, impartial examination of the facts. Your input here is appreciated, especially to the extent that you can explain why the Koran encourages you to murder innocent people who don't happen to share your beliefs. Here's the reality. Asians are generally intelligent people. Americans are generally intelligent people. But you ragheads, with very few exceptions, are absolutely stupid as shit. Most of your countries are third world cesspools of sqalor and religious fanatacism. None of you has a mind of your own. You are indoctrinated from youth into a sick, hateful ideology that utterly obliterates any comprehension of deity. If any of you adult ragheads would stop fondling children for a few hours and actually READ the Koran, you would know that it is a book of lies and hate-filled ideology. And why do you mindlessly follow your fanatical leaders, other than you have extremely low IQ's? Your entire society is backward and filled with cowards. You fucking hypocrites strap bombs on the backs of women and children for suicide attacks. And you have no idea how fucking stupid and warped your sick ideology is. So please, I'm aching to hear your comments, so please respond. Then you can return to your camels. Respectfully, Swash.
TLaCour
Skyprince, you know I agree with you about TBP's value and the high level of commentary here. I value your posts, which are usually insightful. I also agree with you that no one needs to go overboard, but I don't think Stuck is overboard here.
You say there is no indication this guy's actions were tied to Islam, that he could have been Methodist or anything.
How does the fact that he was wearing Muslim garb and shouting "Allah Akbar" before each fatal shot square with your take? What about the fact that he was admonished and given a poor performance evaluation while he was at Walter Reed for prosyletizing patients, and browbeating those who would not convert or who argued with him?
I am shocked and stunned that PC multiculturalist diversity TYRANNY has gotten such a foothold in the U.S. military. Bloody hell.
TampaGold
Walks like a jihadist, threatened like a jihadist, acted out like a jihadist.
Must be a duck!
jeb
With extremely high incidence of suicide in the profession, his Muslim religion, though horrified by this inhumane act. I am not surprised. In trying to dig up as much background on the shooter is possible . I listen to his cousin report in an on-air interview he had joined the military out of high school pre-9/11. He's obviously intelligent and smart getting a degree in psychiatry is no easy task. Imagine the last few years, working with numbers in the armed forces coming out of Iraq where his primary job would've been to dig into the issues causing the psychological disorders suffered to be a daunting task and after so many years, seemingly unending.
When you factor in his Muslim religion it becomes clear this man was asked harshly vexed by career path decisions made leaving high school and the world as it unfolded around him.
One can not simply dismiss him as a nut job who finally acted out on suppressed rage and anger. This man was born and raised in the United States. Decided to join the military when he left high school. Became a psychiatrist, a task requiring a four year college degree, followed by four years of medical school in four years of residence training. A Major in the United States Army.
Following is a quote from a blogger site Scribd.com, (which came to the attention of the FBI). Please note his user name: NidalHasan, and reflect on the fact, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, made no attempt to disguise his identity.
"He intentionally [sic] took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier. To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its [sic] more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause," NidalHasan wrote
"Scholars have paralled [sic] this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory."
As for conclusions, I could venture some at this time, only have to recant them later. Answers I've gleaned from the information so far tells me there is much more to be said and far more to be understood before the reasons behind this horrid attack is revealed.
The name "Kim Munley" will now have the dubious honor of being known by all. She responded to the incident within three minutes and took the action necessary to end this tragedy. In doing so was shot twice in the left leg and once in her right wrist. The direct quote from the Fox news story reads: Her boss, Chuck Medley, was thankful. "If an officer had to be close by to respond," he said, "Kim Munley is someone we'd want to be there." I wish her a speedy and full recovery. Though slightly over 5 feet in height, she is truly a giant in her field.
Jrant
What a surprise: more cowardly pro-murder of inncoents bullshit from another follower of the Regligion of Peace. That anyone considers Islam a religion of peace is foolish.
Daniel
What was said [my translation in brackets]:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.4302994757b171bec8635f48ee413c91.781&show_article=1
"Islam doesn't command anybody to do something like that," said Shaikh Khamis, who has prayed at the Silver Spring Muslim Community Center mosque for 11 years . [Yes it does. Notice the passive language.]
"Everybody knows this is not a place for fanatics," said Qadri. "We don't encourage that sort of thing." [What the this mean??? "That sort of thing" - Is the place for fanatics down the street? Where is the outrage?]
The son of Palestinian immigrants, Hasan …went against his parents' wishes and enlisted in the military [Of course his parents were against it. He was joining the forces of the infidel. And how novel, a Palestinian terrorist attack. CNN will report this as a “cycle of violence, spurred on by bias and the oppressive ‘occupation’]
"He was sociable, likeable. We had regular, casual conversation -- he didn't manifest any particular view either way," Qadri said. [BS. Jihad is casual conversation in many Mosques. He was reported to be all over the blogsphere spouting Jihad].
What we wish was said at this man’s mosque:
“This man is a shame to mankind and a stain on our community. His actions are completely unacceptable and foreign to Islam. He will burn in hell for his actions and he is not a Muslim. He is an animal or a sub human. We pray for the families of all the brave service men and woman killed and injured in this heinous act. We will internally investigate any Muslim that was in contact with this beast and will excommunicate those individuals and work with law enforcement to ride this from our community.”
TampaGold
Kudos for the post Daniel.
It speaks volumes about what they did say vs. what could have been said.
StuckInNJ
We all now know the name and face of Nidal Hasan, that murdering Muslim fanatic. Here are some of the lives he snuffed out. Let it bring a tear to your eye. God bless these American heros.
=======================================================
Spc. Jason Dean Hunt, 22, was from Frederick, Okla., joined the military after graduating from high school in 2005. He had served 3 1/2 years in the Army, including a stint in Iraq, and had just gotten married two months ago. Known as "J.D.," Hunt was "a very quiet boy who enjoyed video games," said his mother, Gale Hunt
Sgt. Amy Krueger, 29, of Kiel, Wis., joined the Army after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and had vowed to take out Osama bin Laden. "Once she got into the military, she really connected with that kind of lifestyle and was really proud to serve her country," said Kiel High School Principal Dario Talerico.
Pfc. Aaron Thomas Nemelka, 19, of West Jordan, Utah. He decided to join the Army instead of going on a mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, his uncle said. "As a person, Aaron was as soft and kind and as gentle as they come, a sweetheart. What I loved about the kid was his independence of thought." said his uncle, Christopher Nemelka.
Pfc. Michael Pearson, 21, of Chicago, quit a job at a furniture company to join the military about a year ago. "He wanted to travel, see the world," his mother, Sheryll Pearson, told the Chicago Tribune. "He also wanted an opportunity to serve the country."
Pfc Francheska Velez, 21, of Chicago, was pregnant and returning home from a deployment in Iraq. She wrote poetry and loved dancing. "She was a very happy girl and sweet," said her father, Juan Guillermo Velez.. A friend of Velez’s, Sasha Ramos, described her as a fun-loving person who wrote poetry and loved dancing. “She was like my sister,” Ramos, 21, said. “She was the most fun and happy person you could know. She never did anything wrong to anybody.”
Russell Seager was a nurse practitioner in the primary care area at the VA Medical Center. Seager joined the Army Reserve about four years ago and was looking forward to his deployment to Iraq
Juanita Warman, 55, was a military physician assistant with two daughters and six grandchildren.
Pfc. Kham Xiong, 23, of St. Paul, Minn., was a father of three, ages 4, 2 and 10 months. Xiong's father, Chor Xiong, is a native of Laos who fought the Viet Cong alongside the CIA in 1972. His high school principal Tim McGowan said, "His greatest attribute was his ability to make people smile and make people laugh. Looking back, that's the fondest memory I have - is that smile of his and that smile that he brought to my face." For his father, the death of the little boy who followed his dad everywhere was hard to take. "I don't think he's dead," Chor Xiong said, then whispered, "I don't think he's dead."
StuckInNJ
This attack was more than just a guy wearing Muslim garb and yelling “Allah Akbar”. This guy did not just suddenly “snap”. This was a PLANNED attack.
U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison addressed members of the media at Fort Hood, saying that , "He was clearly planning this heinous act."
At least one military guy has the ‘nads to call it a terrorist attack. Col. Ralph Peter told Bill O'Reilly that what happened at Fort Hood, "was the worst terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11. It was committed by a Muslim fanatic who shouted "Allah is Great.".
Things we have learned in the past 24 hours …
On Wednesday and Thursday, Maj. Hasan seemed in a hurry to give his worldly belongings to a neighbor. First a Koran. Then bags of vegetables. Finally a mattress, clothing and odds and ends from his bare one-room flat. “I’m not going to need them,” he told the neighbor, Patricia Villa.
A convenience store at Fort Hood has provided a video by surveillance camera of Maj. Nadal in the morning buying his breakfast stuff. It showed he was quite calm and relaxed.
“I can confirm Major Hasan was the gunman, and I actually saw him this morning,” a soldier explained. “I was over in the area doing some paperwork, and saw him at the facility. He seemed fine to me, and I spoke with one of my friends who had an appointment with him this morning. They said Major Hasan seemed OK to them too.”
Jose Padilla, the owner of Hasan's apartment complex, said Hasan gave him notice two weeks ago that he was moving out this week. Earlier this week, Hasan asked Padilla his native language. When Padilla said it was Spanish, Hasan immediately went up to his apartment to get him a Spanish-language Quran. Padilla said Hasan also refused to reclaim his deposit and last month's rent, surrendering $400 that the major said should go to someone who needed it.
Jacqueline Harris, 44, who lives with her boyfriend, Willie Bell, in the apartment next door to Hasan, said he called Thursday at 5 a.m. and left a message. "He just wanted to thank Willie for being a good friend and thank him for being there for him," Harris said. "That was it. We thought it was just a nice message to leave." Bell said Hasan offered a farewell, saying, "Nice knowing you, old friend. I'm going to miss you."
A recent classmate said Hasan once gave a jarring presentation to students in which he argued the war on terrorism was a war against Islam, and "made himself a lightning rod for things" when he felt his religious beliefs were challenged. He said that at a class presentation by public health students, at which topics like dry cleaning chemicals and house mold were discussed, Hasan talked about U.S. military actions as a war on Islam. Hasan made clear he was a "vociferous opponent" of U.S. wars in Muslim countries. Hasan refused, in the name of Islam, to be photographed with female colleagues. "He made himself a lightning rod for things," Finnell said. "No one picked on him because he was a Muslim."
Two psychiatrists who had worked closely with Hasan when he was training at Walter Reed told NPR that the suspect could be belligerent. The two asked not to be identified because the military had ordered them not to talk to the media. But. they said Hasan would sometimes belittle colleagues without provocation. The psychiatrists also said Hasan once gave a bizarre lecture to the medical staff in which he said he agrees with the Quran's teaching that infidels should have their heads cut off and set on fire.
Law enforcement officials said they are trying to confirm if Hasan wrote Internet postings that include his name about suicide bombings and other threats, equating suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the life of fellow soldiers. We do know Hasan listed his nationality as "Palestinian" in a Muslim spouse-matching program.
Maj. Hassan’s cousins in Ramallah offered an alternative reason for the shootings: he was soon to be wed and did not want to leave his spouse.
Goldorack
the guy has blown the fuse long ago and was seeking for an unforgetable end. he clearly expected to be shot down. the fact that he put a coat of Islam on it was the pepper on the steak. regardless from his religion, It's a Virginia tech scenario he had in mind, and it's noteworthy that he knew this university.
It's not possible to reach the rank of major in any army without morality investigations. so theories that he could be member of a terrorist organisation sound like bullshit to me. as a former NCO as low as a Staff Sergeant, I know that my phone calls and my parent's phone have been watched before I get a confidential defense habilitation. I can't imagine this guy have been able to work in the biggest and the most sensible hospital of US army, and being member from Al Quaeda. he committed an act of terror, but if he was a terrorist he wouldn't have hired a lawyer in order to end his contract.
as to the terrorist, what would they expect from you? that you let your emotion drive your acts and that you go burn a mosquee, mollest muslims, insult them, whatever as far as they can place themselves in the victim's side. I just read a business owner would boycott muslims now... well done man, that's exactly what they expect in the Hamas. welcome in the spiral.
most of muslims in the world knows it's no good for them. let's not be like this man: stupid.
regards to the victim's families.
anog
This is called, to use a CIA term, BLOWBACK.
If you dump quarter-million troops right in the middle of your ideological and theological enemy country Iran, blew the country up in every possible category, killed or crushed a quarter-million of their people, committed every atrocity in the UN charter, built massive military bases all over their land, then, disregarded warnings and condamnations by friends and foes all over the world, and to top it off, hang around uninvited in the conquered foreign land for a full 7 years, then there will be BLOWBACK.
The imperialists of the defunct British Empire knew BLOWBACK from their conquered lands very well indeed. Including one uprising in the New World colonies. The old Brits, being true imperialists, were fully prepared to pay the price.
Isn't it interesting that with so much border security implemented, bordering on the paranoid, to prevent another 9/11, that the BLOWBACK came from the heart and tip of that imperial invasion - the military. One of their own, hitting their own, crying 'God is Great' one more time. In a way, this is the perfect BLOWBACK - a bulleye hit of ground zero from, of all people, a senior officer of the US Army.
Is America prepared to learn from BLOWBACK? If not, get out of the empire business.
My condolences to those innocents who were killed or hurt.
IraK
Anog, Remember 9/11. What's happened since then has been blowback for the Muslims. The Muslims started this by attacking the United States, its two most visible commercial buildings, and the Pentagon. Blame what's happened to the Arab world since then on what they did to us. Now the United States is in the Middle East to make sure that we never get attacked by those fanatics again
RockinB
CAIR speaks out, denouncing the murdering terrorist
TLaCour
Lt. Col. Allen West, FL Congressional candidate - you remember him, the guy who discharged his pistol near a captured terrorist in Iraq who, until the pistol discharge, steadfastly denied knowing anything during interrogation. After the shot scared the shit out of the detainee, he immediately poured forth reams of info, names, times, plans, and a number of ambushes were averted, and a massive drop in attacks on U.S. bases ensued.
Lt. Col. West was recalled from Iraq and threatened with charges and a dishonorable discharge. Michael Savage led a massive "shame" campaign against the Army and Col. West was then merely "retired" [read: drummed out] with his rank and pension intact.
Savage had Col. West on for a long chat about this Ft. Hood attack. Several points were made that I haven't seen posted elsewhere on this thread:
Hasan was wearing Islamic garb (robe etc.) when he began his attack. His advancement in rank was questioned by several reviewers, but the "new" [read: lowered for PC purposes] review criteria and process advanced Hasan despite a number of red flags, including suspicious internet postings.
Goldorack wrote "It's not possible to reach the rank of major in any army without morality investigations. so theories that he could be member of a terrorist organisation sound like bullshit to me." Col. West says that indeed, such investigations took place, but Hasan was given a pass due to PC "diversity" concerns. He was "watched" but promoted anyway.
Savage wondered how it could be that no soldiers in the building were armed, and that no armed guard was posted outside the building - in fact, no armed guards posted ANYWHERE on a military base.
Col. West replied that the days when no officer was considered "in uniform" without bearing his weapon were long gone. The days when every building and gate had a posted armed guard, when soldiers did routine sentry duty, were gone when he began his career in 1982. He didn't know how far back the change occurred.
On base, all weapons are stored at secure locations and are drawn only per orders for training, etc. The perimeter gates are manned by contracted security, NOT by U.S. military personnel. MP's patrol much as city police do, and West characterized life on base as quite similar to life in any city - virtually no one is publicly armed.
Col. West cautioned that the Army and the entire Armed Forces are riddled with Hasans who have been not only allowed, but actually encouraged, to rise in rank despite "red flags."
PC TYRANNY = Liberalism = Societal Suicide. Liberalism is a Mental Disorder.
Goldorack
Well, La Cour, if US army standard's have been lowered so much, it's because almost nobody believes the continuous flow of crap from the MSM about the valuable reasons to be here and there. there's more people asking for war than risking their skin for the stake of it.
this explain why a friend of mine have recognized gang's tatoo on some guys he was training before they ship to iraq.
this is the kind of bullies that currently call for airstrikes on villages in Afghanistan just to get a reputation. you can't win a war with this kind of discipline. every civilian downed turn in several recruits for the Talibans, and losses in return. after 8 years this way, it will soon be time to go home.
if everything seems to detoriorate in the forces, it's never a question of money in this country, it's more about defining a mission.
I've change the word "meat" for "skin" in my 2nd sentence. StucK is very pointy about vocabulary. I would like to know how many languages he has learnt from TV.
TampaGold
So while GWB and his wife Laura were at Fort Hood consoling the victims and their families, President Piece of Shit headed out to Camp David for some well deserved R&R.
WTG you insensitive prick.
God Bless the fallen at Ft. Hood.
TampaGold
Goldarack,
Yadda, yadda........ Your ASSumptions are full of shit.
The military trains their people well. They don't just bomb villages because they were/are thugs on the street. That's a ridiculous ASSumption that came right from the lame stream media fluffers.
The last time that I checked, the standards to get in are still tough. You can't get in without a HS diploma or GED. You can't get in if your a convicted criminal. You can't get in if you're too dumb to pass the ASVAB test. And you can't get it if you can't drive past a freaking McDonald's to save your life. (If you're a fat ass.)
Basically, no morons allowed.
That said, if you would think about it for a second, this has a lot to do with the pussified liberal philosophy called Political Correctness.
PC is nothing more than using words and thoughts that won't offend anyone. In other words, kind of like Liberal Utopia.
It is the liberal ruse of PC which is exactly what our enemies are using against us. Nobody speaks out when something JDLR. (just doesn't look right.) What I hear from the reports so far, a lot about this guy JDLR and yet, the jihad happened anyway.
That's PC at work for you. Nobody came forward or if they did, nobody took preventative action. The result was a battle in the War on Terror.
The sheeple have all been brought up to think that it is NOT OK to offend anyone (speak your mind,)
NOT OK to question authority (Does Ayatollah Obama have any clues? Just one maybe? What about you Bawnee Fwank? )
NOT OK to agree to disagree with someones viewpoint. ('This intolerance is intolerable!' quoteth a many libs in so many words.)
NOT OK to defend yourself against tyranny. (Health care.......really? Gun Control....for law abiding citizens WTF?)
And it's NOT OK to report to the Colonel that Major Jihad in the 3rd platoon posted some crazy ackbar allah shit on some extremist muslim website because you might get labeled as a racist.
The problem runs much deeper than your barely punctuated nor CAPITALIZEd post.
And with all due respect to the white house, I hope they have a wonderful weekend at Camp David.
Goldorack
"Basically, no morons allowed"
ok Mr Florida. in 1995 I talked with a US private on the King Abdulaziz airbase in Dahran. like all his buddies, he was from N Carolina. I asked him "what is the state at the north of your one? and at the East?". he was just unable to answer this question. If I had asked him to show me Saudi Arabia on a map, I'm sure he would have failed. and some of his mates didn't seemed more foxy.
no morons allowed? I suppose you refer to your own definition of a moron.
TLaCour
Goldorack, I'm not sure why you direct your post to me. You related from your own experience what happens – what OUGHT to happen – when promotions are considered. I just related what Col. West has seen and says, it was not an attack on you or your post. For my part, I hold that PC has gone wild in Western countries and it is the root of much evil now and much more to come, so if you have a beef with me, that's where to go.
I do disagree with your use of the word "if" in your first sentence (skins is fine, meat, too, I think the second sentence works regardless of noun choice). The standards HAVE been changed ("lowered" if you prefer), no "if" about it. The results of those changes, and the other changes discussed by West and Savage, are only beginning to be seen.
Fact is, these changes were going on long before Iraq or Afghanistan were on the radar. I would like to know from someone who served during or prior to Vietnam if our base security was already so lax then, and/or if Officers had already stopped bearing their sidearm when "in uniform."
TLaCour
At CampaignforLiberty:
A Gun-Free Zone at Ft. Hood
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By Jacob Hornberger [View more articles by this author]
Published 11/07/09
With the massacre at Ft. Hood, we once again see the consequences of gun control.
Remember what the gun controllers say: that once gun control is imposed, would-be murderers will obey the gun-control law by resorting to some other form of murder. At least the killers won’t use a gun, the gun-controllers exclaim, because gun possession is now against the law.
Yet, once again that reasoning hasn’t panned out at Ft. Hood, any more than it panned out at Virginia Tech, Columbine High School, Luby’s Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, or, for that matter, on the streets of Washington, D.C., the gun-control, murder capital of America.
As libertarians have pointed out, time and time again, would-be murderers don’t give a hoot for gun-control laws. At the risk of belaboring the obvious, if would-be murderers are willing to violate laws against murder, it is certain that they will have no reservations about violating gun-control laws.
Therefore, what gun control accomplishes is a disarming of people who would otherwise have the ability to defend themselves from would-be murderers. The peaceful, law-abiding citizenry is forced into simply dodging bullets from the murderer’s illegally possessed guns until the cops arrive.
Consider, for example, the massacre that took place at that Killeen cafeteria in 1991. The patrons of the restaurant were killed because they lacked the means to defend themselves from the murderer, who was violating a gun-control law by carrying his gun into the restaurant. The murderer just kept firing to his heart’s content, knowing that this was a governmentally imposed gun-free zone, until the cops arrived and cornered him, causing him to commit suicide. By that time, he had killed 23 people and wounded another 20.
Need better proof than that? Well, consider this: Suzanna Gratia Hupp, who entered that Killeen cafeteria with her parents, decided to leave her handgun in her truck because she didn’t want to risk a felony conviction by illegally carrying it into the restaurant. Thus, when the shooting commenced, she lacked the means to defend herself, her parents, and everyone else. Her parents were shot and killed. Hupp managed to escape but her parents did not. Watch Hupp’s moving testimony before Congress here, including her statement at the end about the real purpose behind the Second Amendment.
Now, you would think that of all places where people would be armed, it would be a military base. Not so, however. There are strict gun-control laws on military bases, including a prohibition against concealed-carry, even if the state in which the base is located permits concealed-carry.
Thus, at Ft. Hood, the shooter knew that the likelihood of anyone being able to defend himself from the coming onslaught was virtually nil. He knew that since this was a federal gun-free zone, he would be able to shoot his gun and kill his victims until he ran out of ammunition or until the local police arrived and gunned him down.
Why do shooters select gun-free zones to commit their massacres rather than, say, gun shows? No doubt that question continues to befuddle the gun-control crowd.
TLaCour
Skyprince, thanks for the reply. Like the new icon, good pic.
Look, I'm not advocating war with all Muslims, or internment camps or lynchings - I've never posted anything resembling such, and I would SCREAM and FIGHT it if I thought anyone seriously proposed such. That is so anti-American it is just another way to commit societal suicide. And I don't think we need to declare war on Islam generally or on any countries. I do think we'd better stop their immigration here RIGHT NOW and put a stop to the PC insanity of "diversity" and "multiculturalism." Anybody wanna live here as Americans, great, they are welcome. But not African-Americans, or Irish-Americans, or Jew-Americans, or Muslim-Americans. Please read STOP SUPPORTING DEFEAT.
As for swash, he can have his opinion but I don't agree with it. In fact, it seems pretty stupid to say "people only follow fanatical leaders because they have extremely low IQ's" so if he said it, he gets the dunce cap. I agree with what you wrote there.
But I do think Michael Savage (since '94), Geert Wilders (since '03) are correct when they warn that Islam - at least a quite sizeable chunk of it, >10 million active "soldiers" – has declared war on us, the rest of the world. So the war is on, like it or not. Waiting to catch guys like Hasan AFTER they do their horribles is suicidal, it is the same whacky "criminal prosecution" mindset that left us open to multiple attacks 1993–2001, and looks like we'll have more. It is playing defense, and is guaranteed to lose the game. We can either start fighting it to win, or watch ourselves crumble like Spain and Britain are doing. Savage, Col. West, Wilders and others like me further warn that LARGE contingents (many many millions) of Muslims are immigrating into Western countries, intentionally, and NOT for purposes of integration and assimilation. They are coming to change our countries into their version of life, the Sharia version. It is not paranoid fantasy, for goodness' sake, it is happening.
Dude, you can not be blind to what is happening all over Europe, and what has begun here especially in Michigan. I have posted a number of articles on this topic, surely you didn't miss all of them. Have a look at HAVE WE NO HANNAN, NO WILDERS? and follow the links, listen to the whole speech (30 minutes) for a start. You'll want the transcript as you listen, Geert's English is very good but his pronunciation sometimes a bit difficult for me.
And please stop with the Old Testament crap. The Jews gave up their God-sanctioned genocidal True Believer Conquest ways 3000 years ago, and anyway God limited it to Israel. As for Christians, three things: 1) No wars of conquest by True Believers EVER except the Crusades, which were in fact wars of Taking Back that which had been taken by bloody Muslim Conquest, and was again limited to the Holy Land. 2) Intra-European wars over the Reformation were essentially civil wars, not wars of conquest. 3) Wars of conquest in the New World were never about True Belief, they were about political and economic aggrandizement, like most Conquests are. Yes, the Spanish brought their priests and claimed "God, Gold and Glory" but that was PR crap. Most of the soldiers didn't give a rats ass about whether the Indians converted or not. The Gold and Glory part, that they believed in wholeheartedly.
Muslims, on the other hand, are told in their Scripture to conquer THE WORLD, and they have been hard at it. This kind of stuff is not new, and it did not begin because our CIA did somesuch somewhere, that is just the latest excuse. For 600 years straight (650–1250) they kept at it, and managed to very bloodily carve a Caliphate that stretched from Spain, the southern half of Italy, Southeast Europe and North Africa all the way across to Indonesia. They were finally dealt a massive crippling blow by the Mongols that stopped their expansion for a while. Since the 1600s they have been ramping it back up, and since the early 1900s have adopted a two-pronged attack strategy: militant terrorism in multiple countries, everywhere that is not already under Sharia, and takeover by population. Both have been working extremely well in Europe, and a great start made here in the U.S. It is MSM pap that this stuff began recently or is because we invaded Iraq. Bullshit.
You wrote "It is time to cool down...and not let this thing get out of hand. Crowd psychology will take this thing far further along a violent and irrational path. It is time to take a collective deep breath and be smart in how we react to this."
I agree wholeheartedly, mob action is crazy counterproductive. Clear heads are critical, and that means clear eyes, too. You have to be aware and honest about what is happening and why, not crippled with muddy PC thinking. Which brings us to...
"And TL...wasn't multicultural diversity the very backbone of this country?" No. No and no, not ever. Skyprince, you're a smart guy, but there seem to be some terrible gaps in your knowledge of history. The backbone of this country was ALWAYS assimilation, melting pot, the exact opposite of multicultural diversity. That "multicultural diversity" PC lie is societal poison, a recipe for a truly balkanized populace ripe for being ruled by those who realize the value of unity, and brother, the Muslims DO understand unity.
dholsop
I hate what this country has done and it does deserve BLOWBACK. I do however love its Constitution and seek to hold it accountable. Islam however is a cult which seeks to undo the Constitution in the long run. The Nation of Islam is not at all a friend to our way of life and seeks to subvert. These folks are citizens First to the Nation of Islam, and thus to America just on paper.