COLLAPSE the Movie: Mike Ruppert blows them away at Toronto Film Festival

"Have faith in your creator and eveything will work out fine!"

Interesting thought... wonder if all the world's murder victims, casualties of war, the terminally ill, sunami victims, etc... (and all their remaining loved ones) share your conviction?

Why would God come now?

Why didn't he come when christian's were being fed to the lions? Why didn't he come when jews were being exterminated by the Nazi's? Why didn't he stop that freakin' whack job from slaughtering all those folks at Ft. Hood?

Me thinks your "faith" is a bit misplaced... oh well, you just keep believein'... you'll likely be among the first casualies.

Good luck to you... looks like you're gonna need it!

Generally speaking, God doesn't come to you, YOU go to God. Getting saved in the end isn't about not being fed to the lions or herded into the gas chambers, its about where you end up AFTER that.  Since NOBODY lives forever, what you mainly have to worry about is more long term questions, like your Eternal Soul.  Many people sacrifice their Eternal Soul for Wealth and Power here on Earth, which is why its easier for a rich man to pass thru the eye of a needle than to pass thru the Gates of Heaven.  Lo, it is true that the Rich will Burn in Everlasting Torment in the Fire and Brimstone of HELL.  The richer you are, the hotter you burn, very simple equation there.

This is not to say it isn't possible that God won't choose this time to make a more direct intervention in the Here and Now.  God can at any time bring even a 16 year old girl like Joan of Arc to lead armies to victory. God can bring Earthquakes to level cities, God can flood every city on every coast 300 meters or lower if he so chooses.  God can cause Hell on Earth and force the very bowels of of the planet to vomit up from Yellowstone or Toba or the Siberian Traps in a Super Volcanic eruption.

The Finger of God is always upon us, but whether you Go to Glory or are consumed by the Fires of Hell is up to YOU.  This is your choice, everyone has this choice.  When the Big Show comes to a Theatre Near You, you will be faced with the choice right here on earth before you go to the Great Beyond.  Choose WRONG, and you'll pay the price for all Eternity.

RE

Sounds like a bunch of bullshit conjecture to me.  What's your proof?  Any evidence of heaven?  Hell?  God?  What about these fires in hell?  So, this God you worship throws me in there forever and tortures me for eternity because I can't believe this outlandish message about a God creating a problem and then killing himself as a blood sacrfice to cure the problem he created in the first place? 

Yeah, and hell is a great idea.  That's what I did for my children.  I built a torture chamber in my basement with a hot fire pit, and then when my son made a mistake, I put him down there and chained him to the wall.  He's still there.  I go down all the time and stoke up the fire and burn his sinning ass.  Yeah, great fucking concept.  Idiot.

Of course its conjecture. If you think it is wrong, please feel free to ignore it and go about what is left of your life however you please.

If you're looking for Proof by the Scientific Method, you aren't ever gonna get that because you don't have anything observable upon which to test the hypothesis.  The only way you can come to any conclusion in your own mind is by making inferences from what is not directly observable, that is what philosophy is about.  I can infer from what I have experienced and observed some things which you don't necessarily agree are true, but I assure you they are true nonetheless :-)  You'll just have to wait until you pass into the Great Beyond to find that out.  I got clued in a little earlier.

In any event, a long history of Preachers like myself have said the same thing in different ways, so at least I am in good company with this.  In fact Jesus Christ said much the same thing, so even though I am not a Christian this fellow obviously drew the same conclusions I have drawn, which tends to lend some support to the argument.  I mean, maybe I am wrong, but what is the chance that I am wrong AND Jesus was wrong also?  And what is the chance both of us would be wrong and you would be RIGHT?  This would not be a good bet and I wouldn't buy a CDS contract on it.

RE

"I got clued in a little earlier."

Of course, you're special.  Like Jimmy Swaggart. 

"I mean, maybe I am wrong, but what is the chance that I am wrong AND Jesus was wrong also?"

I don't know.  All I have to rely on is a book written by several different authors.  Each one of these authors are all known to be ordinary humans.  I don't know about you, but I don't trust other humans to tell me how to find "salvation."  There's always an agenda there, even if it is only the agenda of making oneself feel good for having convinced someone to believe like you. 

Fuck that.  If God wants to make waves, then God can use his index finger to write a message to humans on the face of the moon.  "I AM GOD" ought to do the trick.  If that fails, how about just coming along and stopping the next five-year old little girl from getting rape-fucked by the pervert next door?  That ought to do it, especially when the LORD appears on the evening news with the happy little girl and her parents.  How about stopping the next starvation victim in Africa by providing a bowl of rice?  Too hard? 

Get with it, people.  Give up your Santa Claus bullshit.  You're adults now.  Quit thinking some God that lives outside of time and space is going to save you.  You have no proof of any of it.  All I have to do is "believe" and say some magic words and I'm forgiven and "in the club."  For proof, you offer a book written by men, edited by men, and approved by men.  Are you that daff?  Do you not see the flaw in that?  "Have faith, Buster!"  OK.  I have faith that we're in a vast universe run by physical laws that appear to be fairly consistent. 

 One of the phrases i remember from growing up on my parents farm  was  "God helps those who help themselves"

I don't trust other authors to find salvation for me either, that is why I am not a Christian.  I spent a good 50 years working out existential problems on my own, in the end coming to some similar conclusions other folks have come to as well.  The conclusions are entirely consistent with the laws of the OBSERVABLE universe, its only possible through inference to see what goes on in the Great Beyond. I can't save you, and God can't save you either.  Only you can save yourself.  Whether you choose to do so or not is your business.  I can try to communicate some principles to you, but what we have here is a Failure to Communicate.  Some men you just can't reach, and so we get what we have now.  Paraphrasing Strother Martin a bit here of course. LOL.

RE

Buster, It seems to me that no one is telling you what to believe but you are telling RE he is foolish for his beliefs. I guess you believe in evolution which is nothing but conjecture. Microbiologists have proven that no mutation of any gene has ever added to the genetic code. That fact alone makes evolution impossible. But I guess it is easy to believe a rodent eventually morphed into a larger mammal which evetually turned into an ape which then turned into a human. Talk about santa claus beliefs! God is not something a person of faith needs to prove. RE nor I will tell you what to believe, that is your decision. Please respect other people's beliefs. I guess you would make a good politician.

"The conclusions are entirely consistent with the laws of the OBSERVABLE universe, its only possible through inference to see what goes on in the Great Beyond."

And only really smart people like you can figure it out, right?  You remind me of the Gnostics from Biblical times. 

"I can't save you, and God can't save you either.  Only you can save yourself.  Whether you choose to do so or not is your business."

It's a given you can't save me or anyone, at least while you're in your Alaskan shack.  No need to state the obvious.  According to you, God can't even save me.  That ain't much of a God.  But I can save myself.  What am I being saved from?  I can't go any further with this conversation until I know what you think I'm being saved from.  You must know, because the sentence quoted above reveals your soteriological genius. 

I'm NOT in the camp of people who don't believe in Evolution, and I would dispute the contention "Microbiologists have PROVED no mutation of any gene has ever added to the genetic code".  What MB proved that, and how did he prove it?

This is why its problematic always to discuss such issues.  Tangential beliefs like whether evolution works or not get pitched into the more fundamental question of the existence of God, and you end up arguing about that.

While I tend to agree with many ideas Jesus had at least as they are recounted in the Bible, by NO MEANS do I think every last thing in the Bible is correct, nor was every last thing Jesus said correct either.  I by no means am a big fan of the "turn the other cheek" idea when you get stomped on.  Nor am I a big fan of the "render unto Caesar" and all that stuff.  On the other hand, they did get right the business about Usury and the Golden Calf stuff.  You have to read the Bible for comprehension, its not ALL correct.  Christians tend to be dopey folks who don't read for comprehension, and take every last word written in the Book as the Word of God.  You have to read it for meaning and then figure out what really applies.  Lots of great wisdom int here, but its not ALL gems.  Lotta crap in there also. LOL.

RE

"What am I being saved from?  I can't go any further with this conversation until I know what you think I'm being saved from. "

I thought I made that clear.  Everlasting Damnation Burning in the Fires of Hell.

RE

Right Mike, I'm sure all Microbiologists agree with you.  Can you show me proof that all Microbiologists agree with that statement?  Well guess what, Mike!  I know a real-live microbiologist!  He lives and works in St. Louis.  He's absolutely convinced that evolution is a scientific fact. 

What you really mean is that a couple of guys you read about at the Creation Research Institute said evolution is impossible.  Do they have any published, peer-reviewed papers I could read?  Please don't refer me to Behe.  He's been thoroughly discredited. 

And for the record, since you want to put me in a box, I'm agnostic regarding some aspects of evolution.  The jury is still out on what exactly happened.  That's the nice thing about real science.  It is continually reviewed and adjusted as new evidence comes in.  The evidence is looked at and new ideas and conclusions are drawn.  We don't have to defend anything.  We're looking at the evidence as presented to us.  It is fine by me if you want to believe ancient stories in a book written by bronze-age desert-dwelling tribesmen. 

Natural selection, the mechanism by which evolution occurs, is pretty well evident to all but the most blinded, brain-washed fundamentalists.  Surely you understand that the slowest animal in the herd is culled out first.  Surely you notice how the stupid morons among us that insist upon drinking and driving usually end up dead or in jail? 

Is natural selection not plainly evident to you?  Why is it you all want to believe in science when you need the latest antibiotic to cure your child, or hold you safely in your seat when you fly at 600 miles per hour at 35,000 feet, but you just can't get with it when science looks at our origins?  Science flies us to the moon and back.  Religion flies us into buildings. 

All I asked for was evidence of God, heaven, hell, etc.  Then I used a ridiculous contrast (basement torture chamber for my son) to show just how ignorant it is to believe there is an eternal punishment for "sins" committed in a finite life span.  RE comes back with all sorts of esoteric bullshit about how he has unlocked the secrets of salvation. 

You want me to respect that?  OK, I do, but don't expect me to believe it or let it go unchallenged. 

"The Finger of God is always upon us."

If God exists, I'm pretty sure he will give you The Finger when you meet him.

"I thought I made that clear.  Everlasting Damnation Burning in the Fires of Hell."

Right, and thus endeth our conversation. 

Yup, thus it ends.  Some folks you just can't reach. A Failure to Communicate.

RE

"If God wants to make waves, then God can use his index finger to write a message to humans on the face of the moon.  "I AM GOD" ought to do the trick."

Nope. That's not true. Here's the thing;

FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE:  Anything can be a sign of God's existence.

FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE;  Nothing is a sign of God's existance.  Even your little moon trick ... you would find a rational, scientific, or other reason to explain it away.

That, my friend, is how it works.

"While I tend to agree with many ideas Jesus had at least as they are recounted in the Bible, by NO MEANS do I think every last thing in the Bible is correct, nor was every last thing Jesus said correct either."

Sooooo ... you just pick and choose whatever suits your fancy.  This year you like one concept .. next year another ... and all based solely on your own likes and dislikes ... rather than on what the text says.  As long as it's convenient, I'll take it!  If not, screw it!

By doing so, you have, in essence, created your own religion.

Thomas Jefferson did somewhat of the same thing ... The Jefferson Bible ... never really caught on with the mainstream .. or any stream. You have a religion of just one. Hope you enjoy your status as God of Myself.

Maybe so, Stuck.  Maybe so.  I suppose paving all the streets with gold, curing all disease, doing away with poverty, war and starvation, lying, cheating and Nancy Pelosi, all while raising my dead relatives back to perfect health, would convince me, but that would take a real God.  There ain't one, and if there is, it is plain as day it doesn't give a fuck about this planet, and those waiting for one to appear and save them are going to get the same damn thing everyone else has got since humans came into existence.  Death and decay. 

"Is natural selection not plainly evident to you? "

If Natural Selection really worked, there wouldn't be so many idiots populating Internet boards :-)

Rather I think you have a kind of guided selection, and this is all an Eternal Experiment on the part of God.  In order to test hypotheses, God provides for many idiots on the internet, and in the world as a whole. Is Hexagonal Life structure a better organization, or Octagonal?  In this iteration, Hexagonal organization ran to the top of the pyriamid, but next time it might be the Octagonal ones might get the upper hand.  It likely takes all eternity to get the whole thing exactly right, but God does have all Eternity to work with, you don't.  You only have a short time walking the earth to make your choices.  Best of luck with yours, I am OK with mine.

RE

"Sooooo ... you just pick and choose whatever suits your fancy.  This year you like one concept .. next year another ... and all based solely on your own likes and dislikes ... rather than on what the text says.  As long as it's convenient, I'll take it!  If not, screw it!

By doing so, you have, in essence, created your own religion."

Well, I don't make changes year to year, but otherwise that would be it in a nutshell :-)  I'm very comfortable having my own Religion.  I don't see why people need to have the same religion as everybody else, all that does is end up in Crusades and Jihads and all that nonsense.  I'm not really all that concerned with whether anybody else thinks I am right or wrong on these questions.  Its not relevant, and moreover there isn't any way to prove it in the the observable world anyhow.  What you believe is your business, what I believe is my business.  What I believe happens to be right though. You believe what you want ot at the peril of your Immortal Soul. LOL.

RE

I wouldn't attach to much signifigance to a stupid internet name, Timeisrunningout. 

"But if you want to put your faith in man and science, go for it. I'll hope and believe there is a Santa Claus and if there isn't then all that was wasted was the hope, nothing else."

I'm not sure that you're doing anything different, except leaving the science part out of it (apparently).  You don't really say what you believe as much as you spend time trying to tell me what I believe or think, but I'm assuming you believe the bible story?  If so, you too are putting your "faith in man." 

We can all admit men wrote the book we call the bible, but where we probably differ is in believing the story that those men were divinely inspired by God when they wrote the book.  In the end, the only evidence you have for believing that divinely inspired men wrote the book, is that other men told you so.  Ergo, you are placing your faith in man. 

And that last part of your quote, interesting.  If it all turns out to be bullshit as I suggest, then haven't you wasted your time and money, as well as your intellectual power in believing an ancient myth?  You can't get that back. 

I can assure Buster I am not a genius. If you want to get a different perspective on the false science that is taught in our school system please read " The case against Darwin...why the evidence should be examined" by James Perloff.

This thread is evidence as to why mankind will never be able to govern themselves fairly. Eventually those who end up with the power will try to force their views on others as history has proved time and time again. They will think of themselves as greater than those they govern. As we all know power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We have evidence of that all throughout history and that now exists in our country from Washington to Wall St. 

Jesus taught us the greatest commandment is to Love God above all things and the second greatest is to love others as you love yourself. If we truly did that we would live in a much better place. Just think what a simple rule that is and yet how profound. We have been provided enough resources on this earth to make sure everyone is provided for. It has all been given to us free of charge but yet those with the power have taken control and "allow" the rest of us to purchase from them what was provided by God. No, I am not a genius and I am no better than anyone else. I just look at things from a different point of view. I don't force anyone to see it my way and I sincerely wish everyone peace and happiness in thier lives. Enjoy the day!

Buster, the Problem of Evil, is as old as Christianity itself.  (Older, actually, but we're talking about Christianity.)

MANY have fallen by the wayside because they can not reconcile a "loving, all-powerful God" with all the evil in the world. I also have great problems with it, and have yet to read a satisfying answer .. despite having read many many books on the subject. The problem can be summarized thusly;

If God is all love, then not stopping evil means he is not all-powerful. If God is all powerful, then not stopping evil means he is not love.

I have yet to read an adequate response to the above paradox.

.

I also share you disdain for the concept of hell. What would we call a human judge who sentences a person to be executed if all he did was steal a 6-back of beer? A tyrant!  Yet when God does it, Christians somehow perform all kinds of mental gymnastics to call it Good and Just. Infinite punishment for a finate sin is an atrocity ... no matter who the judge is.

The concept of a New Testament hell has several inconsistencies. Jesus talks about hell as a place where "the worm doesn't die". Soooo ... worms have eternal life as well? Was there a Worm-Jesus they had to accept to get eternal life?   Also, for all the talk about the tortures of hell, Jesus' conversation with Lazarus (which most Christians interpret as literal) shows that Lazarus suffers little more than being thirsty. Also, Jesus talks about hell as "utter darkness" yet, he also talks about the fires of hell. I know of no situation where fire and utter darkness can coexist at the same time. There are other internal inconsistencies but you get the general idea.

Explaining hell has been a problem for Christendom since its inception ... going all the way back to the time of Christ himself. Jews -- and Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian -- do not have a 'burning in hell'  doctrine.  They just don't. Some sects of early Christians -- and there were MANY sects -- simply refused to adopt this hellfire version as well.  The sect that won out in the end -- Paul's group -- did believe in the torture concept, mocked and condemned the Christians who did believe as he did ... and here we are today. Had Paul not won with his version, we wouldn't even be discussing this.

The Catholic faith tries to ease this horrid concept by inventing an intermediate state -- Purgatory.  Protestants have countered with all kinds of other theories. Not every mainstream Protestant believes in a literal fire and torture for eternity.  Some say hell is only temporary. Some say hellfire is just a figure of speech. Some say -- and it's the concept I would prefer if I were a Christian -- that upon death the body and soul of the unbeliever are truly destroyed, as in, ceasing to exist on any level.  That view at least relieves God from being The Eternal Torturer.

"This thread is evidence as to why mankind will never be able to govern themselves fairly. Eventually those who end up with the power will try to force their views on others as history has proved time and time again."

That's why we need to let the available evidence decide what our best course of action is.  Of course, as do you, I realize there is no perfect system, Mike.  I'd rather have my system governed by fair-minded people using the scientific method to make their decisions. 

On the other hand, I agree with this more than anything, "I sincerely wish everyone peace and happiness in thier lives. Enjoy the day!"

That is good advice, and I'm ready to go down that road with you.  I've got a nice, juicy Porterhouse marinating, a lovely, cool fall day, and some fine, very cold Sam Adams Boston Lager to drink.  So, let us call this a draw and move on. 

Stuck, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

I'll let you George answer for me.  At around 42 seconds to 1:15, he sums it up nicely for me.  It's all about control.  Look at the people here.  When we can't understand or make sense out of the natural, our tendency is to attribute it to the supernatural. 

As for hell, clearly it is a controlling doctrine to keep people in line.  There can be no greater fear to hold over someone than to get them to believing they will burn FOREVER.  Religion is power, and it offers power and control over other humans.  Do we need to look any further than our world today?  People flying planes into buildings?  Beheadings?  Shooting up Army Posts? 

And here I am getting into this discussion again, when I just told Mike I needed to head out and get some sunshine.  Mike's advice is the best I've heard all day, and I am now taking it!

"In the end, the only evidence you have for believing that divinely inspired men wrote the book, is that other men told you so."

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner! Tell him what he's won Johnnie! 

Nonbeliever:  "How do you know what you say about God is true?"

Believer: "Because it's in the Bible."

Nonbeliever: "But, how do you know the Bible is true?"

Believer: "Because, the Bible says the Bible is the Word of God!!"

---

What you have here is the best example of CIRCULAR REASONING ever used by man.

..

Once someone answers with, "Because it's in the Bible" .. you might as well pack up your bags and go home.  That answer is your indication that all discussion based on pure reason is now over.

"Nonbeliever:  "How do you know what you say about God is true?"

Believer: "Because it's in the Bible."

Nonbeliever: "But, how do you know the Bible is true?"

Believer: "Because, the Bible says the Bible is the Word of God!!"

Stuff that is true in the Bible isn't true because its the Word of God, its true because 1000s of years worth of people observed aspects of human behavior and recounted them as stories and parables to elucidate these truths for succeeding generations.  They eventually all got written down and compiled into one Book which theoretically serves as Universal Law, but of course its somewhat clouded by the various interpretations of the people who wrote it and further generations of people who edited it.  So to find what is true, you have to read the subtext, much like in order to perceive what is true about Anglo-American history over the last 300 years you have to filter out a lot of the political spin and propaganda contained in those history books.

Some of what is true in the Bible you can observe in people on a daily basis, but some of it only becomes apparent over many generations of people.  The injunction against Interest is an obvious example of this.  When I was a kid and didn't really contemplate on the implications of paying interest over long periods of time, I didn't see anything wrong with the concept.  Now that the results of this are apparent, the injunction in the Bible makes quite a bit of sense of course, and it would be true whether God exists or not, so its not necessary to believe in God to grasp this truth.  Other truths like the existence  of an Afterlife and concepts of Heaven and Hell cannot be observed in the corporeal world, but they are inferences you can make from the clear presence of Good and Evil in the world, and from that you can either choose to believe in the existence of God or not believe.  I choose to believe in God, since my own sentience is evidence to me that there is an organizing principle of existence which is embodied in the concept of God.  I find it unlikely the mere random assemblage of subatomic particles further into atoms and further into compounds and further into self replicating organisms and further into sentient life could occur without an organizing principle, which is what God is in the end, the organizing principle of the Universe (and beyond of course).  What is written in the Bible is the Word of God in the sense that it comes from the observations of the organization of life by men over 1000s of years, but since its filtered through the observations of man, its flawed and fallible.  So you have to read it with critical thinking skills, assuming God gave you any of those. LOL.

RE

The Bible is not one Book. It is 66 books, written over several hundred centuries, by about 40 different authors (most of them unnamed), in several different countries, in more than one language, and for which not one scrap of original source document is available. I suspect you already know that. Binding them together in a single volume does not make them One Book.

You said, "Other truths like the existence  of an Afterlife and concepts of Heaven and Hell cannot be observed in the corporeal world, but they are inferences you can make from the clear presence of Good and Evil in the world."

I can not infer that Heaven&Hell exist simply because of good and evil in the world. It's too big a jump ... I might as well infer that heaven is a great big Pumpkin Patch.  The only thing I can inferregarding good and evil  is as Lord Tenyson said, "Nature is red in tooth and claw".

You said, " ... which is what God is in the end, the organizing principle of the Universe ..."

So, can I infer that you do not believe in a personal anthropomorphic God?

RE,  you're about the smartest dumb fuck I've ever met.  Your great learning has driven you to stupidity.  You need to get laid, and I mean sooner rather than later. 

Stuck, as a former fundamentalist with a Bible college education, it is hard for me to pray to anything or anybody other than Jesus, or, if you prefer, the classic Christian version of God.  That version of God, as well as the Bible being infallible, we're both drilled into me from the time I was a toddler, and include some of my fondest memories of being a young man.

Personally, I wish the whole thing were true.  About Jesus, I mean.  I wish it was true, and I wish Jesus really did come and redeem humankind.  Have you ever read, "The Jesus I Never Knew" by Phil Yancey?  That book made me hunger for the real Jesus.  I can't find him, because he doesn't exist in this modern world.   

Books if you prefer, but if you go into Barnes & Noble to buy a copy, you don't ask the clerk for the "Books" of the Bible.  Besides that, its refered to colloquially as the "Good Book", not the "Good Books".

Your inability to infer a Heaven and Hell from the existence of Good and Evil is not my problem, it is your problem.  Inference isn't an exact science, it takes a leap of faith which you clearly aren't willing to take.

The only thing I said so far about God is that there is a relationship between the underlying principles organiziing the Universe and the concept of God.  Anthropomorphic? The Little Old Man with a White Beard God is a possible form, so is a Burning Bush, heck if you can organize the Universe you could take any form you like.  As far as how "personal" God is, what does that mean?  Like I have him on speed dial?

Far as Buster's comment goes, I'll take it as a compliment.  LOL.  Far as getting laid goes, BTDTOTTS. My post-coital thoughts are no different.

RE

I have read ALL of Yancy's books .. and will read anything new he writes, even though I'm no longer a Believer in the traditional sense of the word. My favorite is "Disappointment With God", followed by the one you mentioned.

I know how you feel. I really do.

My realization that things "just ain't so" started when I was in Baptist seminary (which I never completed). I will NEVER forget the day I was in a New Testament overview class. The professor was lecturing on Jesus' virgin birth.  In great detailed he analyzed Isaiah 7:14 ("A virgin shall be with child ..)  He said the Hebrew had a distinct seperate word for virgin -- "betulah".  Isaiah didn't use that word. Instead, he used "almah" which has only one meaning -- "young woman". He then went into great detail showing that that verse had nothing to do with Jesus' birth hundreds of years later, how Christians invented that interpretation to justify their own new views, and how that prophecy related only to events in Isaiah's time.  It blew me away. Yet, it was just the first straw. Many, many other strawsof misconception followed. In essence, what followed was truth ... real truth .. not myths and stories propegated over thousands of years. One day I finally realized -- the stuff they taught me in Sunday school, "just ain't so".

And that's why I still read and occasionally re-read Yancy's books. God isn't dead for me yet. But he's not the same God I knew growing up .. even though sometimes I wish he were.

Stuck, dude...

Bro!  Man, are we ever on the same page.  And that verse you cite, Isaiah 7:14.  Yep, been there and done that, and that ain't the only problem.  The problems are, to use another biblical word, "Legion." 

RE, go fuck a moose or something.  You're creeping me out. 

Well, RE, I do NOT consider lack of belief in heaven or hell to be a problem.  Consider ANYTHING you don't believe in for a moment. Anything. Is it a problem for you that you don't believe in it? Of course not! Otherwise, you would take a different course and believe in it. Likewise, not believing in a fairy-tale heaven or a torturous hell is absolutely no problem for me. In fact, it's a relief.

It's Believers who have the problem. First of all, they're much too concerned that everyone else on the planet believe the same thing as they do! Ever notice that? Secondly, many believers just NEVER are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT sure if they're gonna make the cut. Oh sure, they may say they know ... but having been in that camp, I know better.  There's always that little nagging doubt .. is my faith strong enough to get into heaven, or did I screw up along the way. I can't tell you how many Christians I know who fear they have committed the "unpardonable sin" mentioned in the New Testament. I have no such "problems".

As far as a personal God .. no, I don't mean speed dial. Jeez.  I mean a god that you can relate to as you do a person. You talk to Him. He talks to you. If that doesn't make sense, try reading this definition ...http://ldolphin.org/personalgod.html

As far as getting laid, I imagine that must be quite a challenge up there in the Alaskan wilderness. When was the last time you've even seen a female ... and I'm talking human, not bears.

Buster, it's good to have a kindred spirit here.

I imagine I make too many enemies here; I've cussed out Zara, Goldorack, Allesandro, and I've jumped all over RE's shit as well.

Another friend on the net is just great!

I don't quite live without human contact in the Yukon.  Population around here is around 60,000, about half of whom are female.

Anyhow, I'm not real concerned about everyone on the planet believing the same as I do, so its a fallacy to say "It's Believers who have the problem".  This might be a problem for SOME Believers, but not ALL Believers.  Nagging doubts are also not a problem for everyone, certainly not for me.  I never have any doubts about being Right. LOL.

Of course I don't relate to God like a person, since God isn't a person, God is God.  I also don't communicate with God by talking.  Its more an implicit communication through all your senses, and its not in words but in thoughts.  Those thoughts eventually get expressed in words to communicate them to other people, but they don't originate as words.  In a biological sense they originate as a bunch of neurotransmitters and electrical impulses in my brain, but in an existential sense that is preceeded by the sentience behind the chemistry.  Hope that makes it clear to you. :-)

RE

"In a biological sense they originate as a bunch of neurotransmitters and electrical impulses in my brain, but in an existential sense that is preceeded by the sentience behind the chemistry. Hope that makes it clear to you"

I think I got it.

NOPE -- this ain't it

YUP -- this IS

Both pictures could represent God, since again God could take any form whatsoever.  I think the first picture tends to resonate with people who accept the idea that Man is created in God's Image and since to them "image" means "picture", they expect an image of God to look like this.  Well, at least Caucasian Males do anyhow. LOL.

The second picture could also represent an image of God, assuming God took the form of a corporeal brain anyhow.  However, its unlikely either picture represents completely what God is, since God is a part of ALL things we can observe, along with many more we cannot observe.  So a compete picture is never possible on this side of the Great Beyond, all you have is a kind of shadow representation, sort of like Plato's Shadows.  Or the Lines, Triangles and Pentagons of Flatland.  Only when you rise above the plane of Flatland can you see the shapes for what they really are.

RE

I'm not worried about any of it because the Bible says I'll raptured right out of this mess before it gets bad.  I'm working hard to make it happen faster by using as much energy as possible at all times.  I just wish the Isrealis would get their butts in gear on that Temple.

The word "rapture" appears nowhere in the Bible.   Read the Bible ... not, Hal Lindsey.

Nevertheless, there is NO consensus even amongst scholars who believe in the rapture as to WHEN it occurs.  There are arguments made for pre-Tribulation, mid-Tribulation, and post-Tribulation.  So ... don't count yer chickens before they hatch ... you may very well have to endure the same crap as people like me.

Any ideas on who the anti-Christ is?  Obama?

To give credit where credit is due .... nice find, RE.  Never heard of the movie. Looking forward to seeing it. 

PS; If you do get raptured and meet Jesus in the sky, will you tell Jesus your name is Buster Hymen and do you think Jesus will chuckle or cast you to the pits of hell?

I hope he doesn't cast me down for the name, Welsey Mouch.  Preacher says the antichrist was Bill Clinton but maybe he was wrong.  I was reading Revelation & it says 144,000 Jews were there at the time of entry to the Kingdom of Heaven.  I'm confused because Jesus says, "The only way into the Kingdom of Heavans is through Me".  Please explain.  Maybe they are the 144,000 that need to get after it on building our Temple on the the Rock before Jesus comes back.  My brain hurts.

Getting 144,000 Jews to agree on a religious topic is in and of itself an impossibility.