On Friday, the United States Army asked Twitter users how the service impacted their lives, likely as part of a Memorial Day campaign.
The sad responses are a poignant and timely reminder of the toll of war. Appropriate for the holiday, but probably not what the Army P.R. team intended.
When I was 18, in 1970, I tried to join the Air Force, cuz both my uncles were USAF. I took some tests and they wanted me, but on the way home, I got stopped and busted for 2 joints. While in jail, an Army vet just back from Vietnam came in and hung himself in the bunk below me.
— AWhitneyBrown (@TheWhitneyBrown) May 25, 2019
My cousin Wes, has always been a little slow. He went into the Army as a mechanic. His fellow soldiers always made fun of him. He shot himself and lived while on deployment Iraq. The Army investigated it and proved Wes never should've been accepted much less sent into a war zone.
— D In Colorado ??⚡? (@noble_darrin) May 25, 2019
My grandparents were used as pawns serving the US army in aiding them on the Ho Chi Minh trail. They served in The Secret War, and when the US lost the Vietnam war the Hmong were left to die in genocide. To this day Hmong veterans are not recognized by the US army.
— STAR (@starscriptt) May 25, 2019
My cousin committed suicide while on duty at the armory after coming home from a tour abroad.
— Lacy M. Johnson (@lacymjohnson) May 25, 2019
My mother was a Lt. and triage nurse in Vietnam. She’s been a broken person for the last 50 years over the things she saw. In December, she killed herself with prescription pills.
— Jake Copeland (@JamMasterJake19) May 25, 2019
I am 23 years old and my mom still refuses to open up about her experiences in Desert Storm. ? it has closed her off to emotion and affected our relationship more than you know.
— danika?? (@danika_renee14) May 25, 2019
My Grandfather was drafted from Puerto Rico against his will and taken to Korea to fight a war for the USA and when he didn’t want to kill ppl that didn’t do anything to him he was thrown in jail.
— Hilon Mosc ® (@F_G_R_V) May 25, 2019
Didn't serve, did pro bono legal work for veterans bc laws don't let them hire attorneys to rep them in VA issues. Had a PTSD case, not from war but from being raped by other men. I realized reality of govt neglect despite "support our troops" propamantra
— Salaam Bhatti (@salaam) May 25, 2019
lemme think
I didn’t serve but my brother did
he never went to war but still shot himself in the head so— penniwise (@Pennijj) May 24, 2019
My dad, a Vietnam veteran, can no longer function without being stoned. He is terrified of crowds, loud noises, and strangers.
— please scream inside your heart ?? (@Katchin05) May 25, 2019
I'm a social worker on a hospice residential unit. I have a pt who is a Vietnam vet. There are signs posted EVERYWHERE warning staff to leave him alone when he's asleep; and to NOT be within striking distance if we do have to wake him up, lest his PTSD gets triggered.
— Pam Adams ? ✊ ? (@TarHeelInNYC) May 25, 2019
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Nice to see vets and others being honest. Now let’s hurry up and get another pointless war started so we can create even more broken men and women and millions of dead innocents….and let’s not forget all the profits for the blood merchants and how happy it will make our Saudi and Israeli puppetmasters. “Happy” memorial day.
The Unwritten Poem, By the Forgotten Man
Remember the night we first met
and I kept staring
you thought I liked your girlfriend
instead of you
but I didn’t
remember our first date
the picnic in the park
you pushed me in the pond
and laughed while I almost drowned
but I didn’t
remember the first time we made love
it just happened by itself
you were afraid
and thought I was using you
but I didn’t
remember that summer night
we held each other and cried
because we were so happy
and you thought we were being silly
but I didn’t
remember that big fight
and the things we said we didn’t mean
I drove away cursing
and you thought we’d break up
but I didn’t
remember our wedding day
and the joy we shared
we held one another all night
and kissed for hours
you said I fell asleep first
but I didn’t
remember when I answered the call
how brave you were
we talked about our plans
the children we would have
and the life we would live
when I came home from Vietnam
but I didn’t
Wow
THAT was truly moving! Thanks!
Twitter didn’t exist when I was in uniform and would’ve been considered a potential security risk if it had.
Now all the PAO/PR people are wondering WTF happened to the nice TwatterFeed messages they expected.
The military showed me how the gov. does things. Overpriced equipment and Civilian contractors totally screwing over the taxpayers with insanely expensive costs. If you want it done badly and costly get the gov. involved. Our military works because of the people involved, in spite of the gov. involvement.
I wonder about anyone who thinks our current wars are just or that getting killed for oil companies is a good idea.
And the leftist dems and antifa want govt controlled healthcare. The problem today is correlation. Nobody understands how things are connected, correlated. When the govt needs more money for govt healthcare where do you idiots think they will get it from, your taxes. Then they will all march on capitalistic Businesses bitching for more minimum wage increases and lay blame on the capitalist. They are moronic idiotic sheeple.
The only thing worse than serving in a war is losing it.
4 year navy Vietnam vet. Young people listen up; stay the f**k outa the military! Over and out.
overthecliff,
You know I like you buddy…but I think fighting it for the wrong reason(s) is much worse.
Smedley Darlington Butler was right…War had mostly been a Bankster Racket the last 200 years.
But …but…no country or coalition has ever ‘won’ a war since WW2 – just pure hell for all concerned and certain death for many. Crazy stuff – you couldn’t make it up. We even have ‘virtual’ wars like the ‘war on terror’ and the ‘war on drugs’ and these certainly produce many victims too.
Oh, but thinking about it – UK certainly gave the Argies ‘what for’ in the Falklands in 1982, but not sure it was really ‘winning’ – we defended our fellow patriots, so it might be classified as a skirmish – not really big enough to be called a real ‘war’. People still died though.
It’s nice to have witnessed myriad witless brown and black morons being promoted, solely because of the color of their skin, into positions they are woefully incapable of filling. People that seem to believe their new insignia magically make them capable of making competent decisions, despite all evidence to the contrary. People that seem to believe that the obviously predictable horrible consequences their horrendous decisions are always the nearest white man’s fault.
I think the most disturbing thing to witness is an E-6 getting promoted to E-7 in the navy. One day they’re part of the gang, friends, cool. They put on the anchors and instantly transform to assholes.
Anon, this brown shitshow of incompetence is just starting. In the next 30 years you will have a complete breakdown of society because everyone was getting jobs and promotions based off skin color, religion or because they had diversity hardship living in the slums growing up so they got easier test and easy college admissions and free points on SAT scores. These are the people that will be operating on us when we retire. I figure i will have a better chance of survival not going for healthcare, especially surgeries. Bridges will collapse. Municipalities will fail. Etc etc. i need to rewatch the movie “idiocracy”.
Right out of high school to the USN. Served under Reagan’s first term, med cruise to Beirut, with a layover in Granada. Oh the stories I could tell.
IMO, serving your country should be mandatory (2 years) right after HS.
I voted that down, but would remove my vote if I could. I’m not in favor of compulsory “service”, but there could be some beneficial effect if the children of politicians were the fodder.
The children of politicians usually go straight to “officer training.”
So many join up to support families. It’s an economic decision. For the most part it is another welfare system.
How does forced slavery make one a better person, and why should the government have an endless supply of forced cannon fodder to make waging pointless wars that much easier? You can start with the slavery question.
I think service does have its benefits. First, I think it gives you an appreciation for freedom and liberty. I think it offers you a chance to learn some useful skills. Perhaps you’ll get some job training that will assist you in your civilian life. You’ll definitely learn how to get up, get dressed, go to work, and be somewhat competent at performing your duties. All of these things are lacking for the generation that has famously spent the last decade crashing on mom’s couch. BTW-I can’t help pointing out that for some of these people, this would be their first job. This first experience of tough discipline and hard work might help develop them professionally, arming them for a life of success they would never know as couch-surfing douchebags and coffee shop barristas.
One valuable thing a draft did for this country was to break down the barriers between regions, races, and cultures. I believe service forces people from different backgrounds to set aside their differences and work together, even if they hate each other. For some people, the military is the first time they ever meet a person of another race or culture. That’s a big deal for some folks’ development. When I first left the South, it was a bit of a culture shock for me. Now, when I go to a job interview, I’m surprised to be asked if I have the ability to work with people of different races and backgrounds. Apparently, not everyone has this experience I just mentioned and it’s actually an issue. I never knew.
I wonder if a similar effect might be experienced politically if we were forced to mix lefties and righties together where they can’t escape or refuse to work with each other? If this were the case, national service might seem like a benefit.
I don’t necessarily want these people to go to war. I think they could be just as productively used to pick up trash, rebuild infrastructure, guard the border, etc. After 2 years of service, they could go back to their own lives and return to hating each other and crashing on mom’s couch.
You are a voice of reason but unfortunately the government is not a force of reason but one of violence and intimidation so they will always misuse any asset they are given, especially our young men and women. Sorry, gilberts, but the good old days of ‘for God, Harry and St George’ are long gone.
So you are fine with slavery….got it. Not enough to steal the fruits of one’s labor, now its ok to steal the labor directly by enslaving it for 2-4 years. Seriously? All of the things to attribute as being positives, are the things PARENTS should be teaching kids, and without government monopoly day prisons that pass for schools, undermining the authority of parents, this likely would already have been happening. Government cant deliver the mail, maintain the roads, protect the value of the currency, run the educational system or do anything else they violently maintain a monopoly over, yet you think that forcing everyone in America onto their plantation will somehow turn out ok? You sound a lot like the folks posting on this twitter feed who watched grandfather, father, uncle, brother, etc. serve and die or end up completely screwed up, and STILL ENLISTED…only to suffer the same fate. We are supposed to be able to LEARN from our surroundings and our experiences. What about the government sends the positive message of “success?”
Sure, I love slavery. I wish I owned a few right now. My yard would be the better for it. So now that we got that out of the way, can you climb down off the high horse and actually debate what I said?
Would it not provide some useful discipline for young people?
Would it not overcome the barriers of provincialism, cultural isolation, racism, etc?
Would it not offer useful work and professional experience?
Would it not also assist in unifying a dis-united national culture?
As an additional benefit, my dad served in the Navy during Korea. He wasn’t there, but a lot of his peers were. He told me the great thing about the draft was, with many of the servicemen being WWII vets who had been out for 5 years, or so, they were uniquely honest to their superiors about what they thought. They were not careerists, so they didn’t give a shit about telling the chain of command how they felt about the war and their decisions. They also really wanted to go back home as soon as possible, so they fought like hell. I think the military could use a potent dose of honesty in the ranks which is not necessarily provided by the careerists who really want that next promotion, next award, next plum assignment.
Finally, you did not seem to care about my point I don’t necessarily see a need to send them to war. Just get them the experience of training, meeting the standards, garrison life, and have them guard the border, pick up trash, rebuild roads, or whatever.
I don’t see service as slavery. I see it as service. Compelled national service appears to offer a great deal of benefits. If it is as awful as you seem to think, that may also be a useful aspect of service. If it sucks as bad as you say, at least the younger generation performing it will know it, understand it, and perhaps build a better nation and culture based on that experience. Actually, you probably ought to be supporting the concept if you want to promote your own ideology. Your ideal only works in theory, since the population you would liberate from slavery is all too happy to embrace it. Ever notice how popular Socialism is with them? True liberty is literally a hate crime to them.
Actually, military life is a good experience of Socialism, in my opinion, and might help eradicate the idea among many of them. There’s nothing like seeing an idiot with seniority getting to tell you what to do to make you embrace merit in promotions.
Also, I can’t help thinking these people already consume a lot of government services. They have government-backed education loans. Many of them are or have been unemployed or under-employed and, I assume, many of them enjoyed government support. Many of them are or have been covered by BarryCare, so they’ve enjoyed their parents’ medical insurance and many qualified for subsidized care. And there are probably countless programs I’m not even aware of. All provided by govt. For a nation addicted to eating tax dollars, it seems kind of absurd to protest when the provider of all those freebies comes calling, like Satan to collect a soul.
One last thing- where do you stand on the concept of universal military training? Many nations have it. I believe it has kept Switzerland, for instance, free for centuries. Would it not benefit the vast majority of Americans to have a similar training? I believe it would probably help mature many, dispel myths around weapons and self defense, and, God forbid, if we are ever actually invaded or the nation collapses, it might help with defense.
PS-They do pay you. So it’s not exactly the traditional definition of slavery…
The government mandates compulsory education. Condider two years of service as education which it undoubtedly would be.
I see there’s 15 sissy’s here….
Please share.
Never in the military,had a lot of family in military(20 year folks)including me grandfather(WW@&Korea),me uncle(Vietnam),me mom a 20 year VA doc,and,all I can say is war sucks from their stories.
I had a friend in Lebanon during the barracks bombing,really did a number on his head as he was off duty and back on a ship when happened,finally doing OK after years of hard work on his and many others part.
I had another friend who after the first Gulf War was a bit of a mess,lived on me coach off and on a few years,seems to have gotten his life together.
So,lets agree war sucks(and do our best to avoid our country in wars).
As tomorrow Memorial Day,lets remember those who died and how expensive the cost of war truly is.You do not have to agree with the politics of war/the mic and other fuckers who push no point wars,but,remember those who have died,they died doing the right thing,they were fighting for the person to the left and right of them.
To buddies who have crossed the hill
Whose laughter one rang loud and clear
This moment finds us bowed and still
Because you do not answer: “Here!”
If you have no point in being there, no moral justification for being there, and your nation is committing a war crime with every bullet you fire, then even killing the person attacking is immoral. It is like the home invader claiming it was ok to kill you because you were shooting at him while he was in your home. You are an invading force. Those repelling you have the entire moral high ground. That you are killing others to defend yourself and your “buddies” does not absolve you of the immoral acts you are committing. Sorry. Don’t enlist, don’t agree to fight if drafted, reject the war entirely, even if it means jail. THAT is the moral stance to take.
The vast majority of us who fought, bled, killed and watched our ‘buddies’ die in past wars were usually teenagers or in our early twenties.
The vast majority of us knew a fraction of what we know now as far as to what I referred to earlier in this thread as:
“Smedley Darlington Butler was right…War had mostly been a Bankster Racket the last 200 years.”
I am not looking for absolution or a smug lecture from you or anyone else. I have made my peace with my creator over my heart and my time and my deeds in the war of my youth.
mark,
You just keep doing as you do and speaking as you speak; there are some among us who appreciate your perspective and wisdom, who will also refrain from kicking you in the balls or disrespecting you for what you did not know, could not have known, but learned the hard way, through tears, sweat, and blood, that of your friends if not your own. I will never judge a man who served, but I will, with every fiber of my strength, discourage someone who is considering it, because I KNOW how governments the world over USE good men to do bad things, and one day, those sonsofbitches will stand before Almighty God and answer for what they ordered other men to do.
Thanks niebo…I greatly appreciate your kind words and perspective.
When it comes to Nam I have developed a cast iron jock strap…been kicked in the balls by all sides. Uncle Sam even sprayed me with dioxin!
This is always a hard weekend…the poems I put out were written in the 70’s and they saved my life as I was riddled with PTSD then…and didn’t know it.
And you are right, one day we all will give an account of every word and every deed and our hearts will be an open book. I have plenty to answer for…but I have long made my peace.
You are also right about those sons-of bitches and daughter’s of witches…theirs’ will be hell to pay.
Mark..
Mr Liberty served a good purpose once. His mal-informed opinion about My Lai pissed me off enough to finally write My War.
But it don’t mean nothin.
Flea,
I vomited out about 30 poems in the 70’s to purge my soul and confront the aftermath. Like HF said you have to feed the good wolf.
This was the last one.
WHILE STRUGGLING TO BE STRONG
Too painful to remember
too horrific to forget
Flashbacks of the past
but then again yet
Can it be the trials
and prices that were paid
Add up to the sum
of the man I am today?
And can it be in fire
survival was learned
While struggling to be strong
character was earned
Then coming of age
The man I am was born
Now, I realize the fight will never end
And those not there will ever comprehend
The cost…
Here, here
Mr. L, I believe the sentiment expressed by the Delta operator from Mogadishu is illuminating regarding the “moral” thing to do. “When that first bullet snaps past your head, politics and all that shit goes right out the window.”
The fact is, regardless of your good will, the locals are not going to say you are a great moral guy and let you walk home. Kill or be killed. THAT is one of the evil features of government sponsored conflicts.
The sorriest thing about serving is being sent to some needless war by useless, asshole politicians.
Given that there hasn’t been a war with any merit since 1945 (and one can cite a lot of evidence to even discount that war), why would anyone enlist and serve??? Because that is ALL you are doing – providing useless asshole politicians with the means to wage war and the bodies to throw at it.
Tradition, in the south, at least, is one reason; many families here are made of military men. Some are career, but most serve 4 to 8 and return to farm the land. Seems the discipline they learn in the military makes them adaptable to the life of farming – or maybe the life of a farmer (since most start young, as sons of farmers) makes them suitable for the military: long hours, hard work, stress, worry, and long-game payoffs. When one is deployed, there is not much opportunity to spend the pay that accrues, and that is analogous to the time between sowing and harvest. For others, it is a way “out” of a dead-end town or county; for people who can’t afford college, or who lack the “smarts” – not everyone is suited to a classroom, after all – and for others, it is a way to avoid jail, either by decree of a judge (know two people who chose this route with the court’s approval) or because of foresight . . . choose the military or wind up in prison. Not everyone has a stable upbringing/home-life, and not everybody has the options that “we” would like to think that they do. Also, please consider that public education does not teach the truth about anything, especially war, and the media, well . . . they are liars too. So a lot of people do not know the truth and never consider that what they “know” is a lie, so they never go looking for “real”. Sure, the resources are available, but without cause, most people do not MINE for the truth, because they and their peers live under the same delusion. This delusion is not of their making but was/is foist upon them . . . by the same PiecesOS who want to use them as cannon fodder.
I enlisted in the Navy from 1967-71 to avoid the draft and Vietnam. Trained as an aircraft mechanic and during my enlistment got my A&P mechanic, private pilot and then commercial pilots and flight instructor licenses with VA benefits. I was lucky to be stationed in Hawaii. I hated every minute of military life but made the best of a bad situation. I briefly thought about the Army helicopter pilot program but after seeing a busload of wounded from Tripler Army hospital at the beach I never thought about it again. The vision of kids my age burned, missing limbs and just staring off into the distance haunts me to this day.
Dennis,was uncle was a snake driver in Vietnam,while he did fine he lost a lot of friends and was shot down a few times(according to him,your radar was a smoke trail coming at ya’s),so,you made a good choice.
Sigh…..,my uncle was
To this day whenever I see a red apple I see Billy’s grinning face. Good looking fellow, closely resembled an 18 year old Paul Newman with lighter blonde hair…and if it got any length…a stubborn cow lick he was always trying to pat back down. We trained together and ending up in the same company!
He had that Cool Hand Luke easy grin too…same colored eyes.
TWO DARK RED JUICY LOOKING APPLES
I remember Billy’s bright boyish face
His laughing blue eyes
His easy devilish grin
And those two dark red, juicy looking apples
Under a blazing Vietnamese sun
we stood in line…(hurry up and wait)
like human cattle
a heard of young Marines ready to stampede
waiting to board the choppers
and whirl off to battle
sweat oozed from every pore
the weight of the Grunt strapped on us
helmet, pack, never enough ammo, canteens –never enough water, grenades, claymores, flack jacket, etc., etc. etc.
fear sliced through our hearts
silence and gloom hung heavy in the air
then with a wink and flourish Billy reached into his pack
and like a magician pulling rabbits from his hat…
he held out two dark red, juicy looking apples
his eyes sparkled with delight
as he watched me closely
“Billy…How? Where? When?
“Stole’em…cook’s hooch…last night.”
he tossed one over to me
that Paul Newman mischievous grin, curling
splitting his face from ear to ear
we both laughed then attacked the fruit
they killed Billy that night.
When I was a little kid I always wondered why some “old guys” were such off the wall nutcases. Alcoholics, violent, “get off my lawn” or whatever. When I was maybe 18 I realized it had to do with WW2.
My best friend’s Dad was a machinist and great guy but he and others would get wasted and fight in bars etc. Back then Nam was still going on and he came in one day three sheets to the wind and starting telling us that no f’ing way would he allow us to get drafted or be in armored units or anything like that. He’d make sure we got in the Air Force or Navy.
Turns out Old Joe had been Company Commander of a tank unit in Europe. He had three tanks blown out from under him where he was the only survivor. In one case, he was outside his burning hulk and jumped by a Kraut who he killed with a knife in hand to hand combat and had his own hand almost cut off in the fight. That explained his situation pretty well and gave me understanding of the other guys and helped me relate to them. But of course the old timers had to be really wasted before they would spill their guts about the horrors of war.
Another time, my uncle was really wasted and told me how on VJ Day they all got super drunk and went to the stockade and murdered 300 Jap prisoners. I know now that haunted him until the day he died. That was on top of killing hundreds of the enemy in the island hopping campaigns as a machine gunner.
A lot of these guys just needed somebody to listen to their stories who don’t subscribe to the fairy tale that real men don’t cry or don’t need a sympathetic ear.
I grew up with a friend of my dad’s, John, who was a WWII/Korea/Vietnam vet. He lied about his age to go to sea at 16. Later, as a Gunner’s Mate, he was attached to the landings in Korea, and he also spent time in Vietnam. He never told me much about it, but he spent many weekends getting in bar fights and he was never, ever without a beer or bottle of Canadian Mist. I didn’t hear much about it til’ later.
I grew up meeting my dad’s friends, all of whom were vets of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. I never realized how tough these guys were. The old man who liked to scare people at Halloween was Colonel Gerald Averill, writer of Mustang, a book about his WWII Marine experiences as a paratrooper Marine in the Pacific and Korea. Another long-time friend of my folks’ served in the ETO and was stationed in Hamburg at the end of the war. He and his German wife gave me a German naval banner souvenir he had brought back. Other friends of his were in the Pacific, like George, who served on a carrier and had a Japanese kamikaze pilot’s map on his wall.
I feel sad that in this day and age, kids won’t grow up with heroes, like I did. Young one will grow up knowing oldsters who were meth heads or prostitutes or hippy protestors. They’ll be more likely veterans of Occupy Wallstreet or the CPUSA than the USMC. It’s sad, because those people were a hell of a lot better than the ones who replaced them. I would rather look up to eagles than turkeys.
I served in the Army 01-07. I am proud of my service, but I think the war I served in was stupid and accomplished absolutely nothing useful, good, or worthwhile. I think most of the people in charge were and are stupid. I think the way they treat soldiers is stupid. I think we should spend more time protecting our home country and less time attacking other countries.
Still and all, I would do it again. I learned a lot, did a lot, saw a lot, and it helped me in the long run. Army is the greatest existing means for lower and middle class losers to get a leg up in the world, assuming they survive. There’s no hope in Stinkwater or Rustville or Martin Luther King Ghetto, but if you can follow basic rules and stay out of trouble, you can get professional training, get an education, get a home loan, get a pension. The downsides are numerous, but it’s still a way out of the shit if you’re willing to put your life on the line. I also think upper class losers should serve, too, to actually be a part of the country they’re going to be running, instead of sitting at the club drinking and watching soldiers die somewhere and thinking, “I’m glad I’m not one of those losers.”
One thing I love about the military, all branches, all times, all places is the people. I’ve stayed around them as much as possible because I love servicemen and women. When I deal with military people, I know I’m going to be getting someone with a similar level of professionalism, knowledge, and ability to deal with problems. They’re not superhumans or anything, but I know I’m going to be getting less drama and bullshit than I do from civilians. The civilians I work with now are some of the silliest, sneakiest, grudge-holdingest and highschool drama-est idiots you ever saw. They act like overgrown children.
BTW- great book on the PTSD issue- Achilles in Vietnam, by Jonathan Shay. He is a psychiatrist who has done a ton of PTSD counseling with veterans and he believes the Illiad is actually very much about PTSD and Achilles’ suffering in the epic is identical to the suffering of countless veterans. It’s very well worth your time, especially if you want to understand the issue vets face.
gilberts,
It is a great book.
‘On Killing’ to me is the definitive work on the subject.
Absolutely! I got On Killing on my special bookshelf next to Achilles in Vietnam, Odysseus in America, and Defense of Duffer’s Drift, among others.
Good one Mark thanks – I shall read it. The other one I have read is prescribed reading for helicopter pilots I am told and is an extremely good read:
I have Chickenhawk and have reread it a couple of times. Outstanding personal story. David Hackworth and Mason crossed paths. There is a line in “Chickenhawk” where Mason writes about some asshole Major doing something in his chopper. In one of Hackworth’s books (maybe “About Face”, not sure as I have read all his stuff) he wrote about some asshole pilot. If you read both books you realize it is the same incident.
Another I really think is first rate is “Once A Warrior King” by David Donovan. Donovan was the military advisor for a district in the Mekong Delta.
Hackworth was awesome. I was sorry to see him go. I have About Face and Hazardous Duty, and Steel My Soldiers’ Hearts. All great. I think he did more service to the nation outside of the military than he did inside. His coverage of the military as an ex-insider on the outside was great.
Chickenhawk was a real eye-opener for me. I highly recommend it.
What kind of war would Vietnam have been if NOBODY had agreed to go?
A fucking short one.
Every one of the opinions above were by people who did not serve but knew of others that said they did.
What can be said about today’s wars or any wars really? I was raised 7th Day Adventist and we were always taught to be a contientious objector if drafted. True story…Hacksaw Ridge is a movie about a 7th Day Adventist contientous objector. He saved a ton of soldiers. Bravery is NOT about killing people.
I’ve said a few things about wars and have asked a few questions on TBP over the years about wars and soldiers. I think I have pissed off a few good people. I’m sorry if I ever angered anyone. I’m angry that good young men and women get used as pawns for shitty ass politicians.
Don’t worry Donkey I got your 6.
You’re good people, Mark.
I wouldn’t trade a million bankers and politicians for the lives of Monti, Parker, Mracek or Pearce. Eager to throw away good people for profit and power. And we just keep the wheel rolling.
I hate crowds. I fucking despise driving. I cannot sleep more than two hours at a time. I have headaches from multiple concussions. I have arthritis in both shoulders. Fractured cervical vertebrae. Lumbar herniation and all that from the fuck fuck games in the military. Other than that I did get a tshirt and to wreck shit in other countries that honestly didnt earn the wreckage.
Fuck it dude. Lets find some more bullshit reasons to fuck some more countries up for fake profit and glory. What are a few more lives?
Need some Dylan MoW now.
I joined the War Office in UK Civil Service in 1964 working with the military- lasted 3 months – never saw action, but read about a lot those who had/did. I left to sell cars and never regretted it. In the 60s it was all about “Better dead than Red” and “Beware of Reds under the bed”. I wanted to kill communists badly but my short taste, at a distance, of the hell of it taught me an early lesson. My guardian angel has never let me down, ever.
I still think that ‘peace-time’ military training is good for the soul and practical skills when young and green but should be voluntary.
Serving impacted me in every way, for good and bad. But I knew on my way out the door to leave everything behind me that wasn’t going to be useful going forward.
Which wolf do you choose to feed?
HF,
Here is the good wolf of my thankfulness…I fed him this morning after reading all the posts. Eight things many of my forver teenaged ‘buddies’ were denied.
1. A wide and deep appreciation for the basics of life:
• Unlimited clean water!
• Unlimited nutritious food of endless variety
• A roof over my head
• A comfortable bed
• Time to sleep and rest
• No one trying to kill me
2. A deep appreciation for the core of normal life, a common uneventful day.
3. The experiences, knowledge, and combat skills to defend my family and myself far, far past the average American.
4. Living in a country with the freedom and liberty to worship God as I believe, own land and property, live where I want. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights! (At least for now).
5. The opportunity to build a family, a career, own my own business, save and live on my own farm without debt.
6. A chance to have a family and a grandchild and grow old with my wife.
7. A chance to read, study, search, dig, and peel away the mocking bird lies and survive the survivors guilt, to learn and heal and renew my spirit and soul.
8. Last and not least to thank the living God for His undeserved mercy with me
Is the point they are making that war is bad? No argument there. I am disgusted, however, by the Puerto Rican whining about an uncle being drafted. I am sure uncle never complained about his US citizenship. Most Puerto Rican veterans served honorably and proudly.
I think that they are offering a counter-narrative and to be fair for many service is an experience they would have been better off having skipped. Like college or marriage, it’s not for everyone. Some parts of it can play with a person’s mind if they aren’t already pretty solid to begin with, especially for those in combat.
I was born into an Air Force Family, son of a man who joined the Army at 16, lying about his age. And flew a glider into France the night before D-Day. He never had to drop a bomb from his 36’s and 52’s as the ones he carried were nukes. A college deferment and draft #248 coulda kept me out of my duty – as I saw it. I served two years on the Iron Curtain front in an Islamic country. And felt welcome everywhere I went as I traveled on official and unofficial business. Africa, Europe, Turkey and a sojourn behind the Commie Curtain in Bulgaria. It was all good. I gained valuable experience plying my trade on uniformed men and women. And saw first hand how the military operates overseas in peaceful times. And I believe I am the better for it.
My late father-in-law served in the Navy, winning two Distinguished Flying Crosses in the Pacific theater. A brother in law was a Green Beret in Viet Nam. My two sons served a total of 5 tours in the Middle East, four of them in Infantry combat.
Memorial Day invokes my memories of my high school friend who was killed in action in Laos. So forgive me for my long worded tribute to him.
A Bit of Fred
My Friend, Now Dead
On the radio of my father’s car the Rolling Stones’ “I Can’t Get No Satisfaction…” from the album Out of My Head played while two dates, Fred and I, the girls were from afar, Kittanning, PA. “So special” they were. Her name was Nell in the front seat beside me, an official and endorsed boundary by her sister (my 10th grade English teacher) and my mother, both named Georgia. My mother knew my teacher from doing her hair at my mother’s beauty salon. That is how the blind date was set up.
The girls were down for the summer and we were up for fun. I drove a 1957 Chrysler New Yorker, with a push button transmission, a 401 hemi and giant tail fins on the dirt road alongside Poquito Bayou in Shalimar, Florida. Fred and our new found friends had already heard the song, released recently. If ‘exuberance is beauty’, then Fred was a 10 as he sang along to the lyrics. Where were you when you first heard it? In 1966 I would hear the anthem played live in San Bernardino, California during a performance by the iconic band.
The Summer of 65 Fred and I felt alive…with our parent’s cars with AM radios and the joy of seeking our future. We felt like we had pulled a coup d’état that night infiltrating the secret lives of Teachers…and females.
Fred had his own apartment that summer behind his family’s home. We would hang out frequently, drinking an illegal beer now and then. Weed and other drugs were unheard of. Fred had an amazing love of knives. He juggled throwing knives for fun. We competed in knife throwing contests, he was good and my equal or better, with a blade.
When I recall Fred, he is always happy and always leading me and others onto the kind of person we wish to be. I have a picture from Jr. High of Fred and I making a play on the W. C. Pryor Junior High School’s basketball court; it had been published in the Playground Daily News. Fred had my back and I have his every Memorial Day.
GASSMAN, FRED ALLEN
Name: Fred Allen Gassman
Rank/Branch: Sergeant/US Army
Unit: Military Assistance Command – Vietnam
Special Operations Augmentation
Command & Control North,
5th Special Forces Group,
1st Special Forces
Date of Birth: 05 September 1947 (Eglin Field, FL)
Home of Record: Ft. Walton Beach, FL
Date of Loss: 05 October 1970
Country of Loss: Laos
Loss Coordinates: 161126N 1070527E (YC227912)
Click coordinates to view maps
Status in 1973: Killed/Body Not Recovered
Category: 2
Aircraft/Vehicle/Ground: Ground
Other Personnel In Incident: David A. Davidson (missing)
REMARKS:
SYNOPSIS: MACV-SOG, or Military Assistance Command Vietnam – Studies and Observation Group (MACV-SOG) was a joint service unconventional warfare task force engaged in highly classified operations throughout Southeast Asia. The 5th Special Forces channeled personnel into MACV-SOG through Special Operations Augmentation (SOA) that provided their “cover” while under secret orders to MACV-SOG. These teams performed highly classified, deep penetration missions of strategic reconnaissance and interdiction that were called, depending on the location and time frame, “Shining Brass,” “Salem House,” “Daniel Boone” or “Prairie Fire” missions
On 5 October 1970, SSgt. David A. Davidson, team leader and Sgt. Fred A. Gassman, assistant team leader, were assigned as rifleman to a joint American and Vietnamese reconnaissance patrol, code named “RT Fer De Lance.” The team was inserted into the extremely rugged and isolated jungle-covered mountains approximately 70 miles west-southwest of DaNang, South Vietnam; and 12 miles west of the Lao/South Vietnamese border, Salavan Province, Laos.
The patrol had established their night position on a ridge just south of Route 922, just west of Ta Bat and 10 miles west of the infamous A Shau Valley when they were attacked by an enemy force of unknown size. According to the two surviving indigenous team members, in the ensuing fire fight SSgt. Davidson was hit once in the head during a burst of enemy fire from an automatic weapon while the team was attempting to evacuate the area. He fell down the ridge, and lay motionless with what appeared to be a fatal head wound. David “Babysan” Davidson was on his third year with SOG and was held second only to legendary Jerry “Mad Dog” Shriver in respect and achievements..
At about 1300 hours, Sgt. Gassman radioed the on site Forward Air Controller (FAC) that NVA were advancing toward their position from three sides. Further, he stated they were low on ammunition and requested an emergency extraction along with air strikes. Fred Gassman then attempted to retrieve the team’s homing device. During his last radio contact he stated, “I’ve been hit, and in the worst way,” followed by several groans before the radio went dead. The surviving indigenous patrol members, who were successfully extracted, reported they last saw Fred Gassman lying motionless with a large hole in his back. One search and recovery (SAR) attempt was made shortly after the incident, however, no trace of either missing American could be found. Further search attempts were curtailed due to enemy forces in the area and the difficult tactical situation. David Davidson and Fred Gassman were immediately listed Killed in Action/Body Not Recovered.
For every insertion like this one that was detected and stopped,dozens of others safely slipped past NVA lines to strike a wide range of targets and collect vital information. The number of MACV-SOG missions conducted with Special Forces reconnaissance teams into Laos and Cambodia was 452 in 1969. It was the most sustained American campaign of raiding, sabotage and intelligence-gathering waged on foreign soil in US military history. MACV-SOG’s teams earned a global reputation as one of the most combat effective deep-penetration forces ever raised.
David Davidson and Fred Gassman are among nearly 600 Americans who disappeared in Laos. Many of these men were known to be alive on the ground. The Laotians admitted holding “tens of tens” of American Prisoners of War, but these men were never negotiated for either by direct negotiation between our countries or through the Paris Peace Accords which ended the War in Vietnam since Laos was not a party to that agreement.
While the fate of SSgt Davidson and Sgt. Gassman is in little doubt, they have a right to have their remains returned to their families, friends and country they gave their lives for. For other Americans who remain unaccounted for in Southeast Asia, their fate could be quite different.
Since the end of the Vietnam War well over 21,000 reports of American prisoners, missing and otherwise unaccounted for have been received by our government. Many of these reports document LIVE American Prisoners of War remaining captive throughout Southeast Asia TODAY.
American servicemen in Vietnam were called upon to operate in many dangerous circumstances both on and off duty, and they were prepared to be wounded, killed or captured. It probably never occurred to them that they could be abandoned by the country they so proudly served.
http://www.taskforceomegainc.org/?fbclid=IwAR0s7qWGvtwq5YvWvh405ESj6BitC3z10layjZTvn4hL-qisBokgCvPUHcA
Wow, Keyser, good stuff. Thanks for sharing.
Legendary is an apt description of “Mad Dog” Shriver. An operator of incredible skill, Shriver was renowned for his bizarre choice of weapons. It is said that he carried a half dozen .38 revolvers, saying that if he needed more armament than that he had messed up the being stealthy and unseen part.
There is a legend that his dog had crapped on the floor of the camp club. Someone did the old time rub the dog’s nose in it stunt. Shriver was enraged when he learned of this and came to the club wearing some weird get up and a top hat. He dropped his drawers and took a crap on the floor in front of everyone there. He then asked who was now going to try and rub his nose in it? There were no takers.
Fred was legendary in the locker room. He was a big swinging dick. He could flop it upwards and the tip would hit his belly button.
I see a piece of me in all those posts
As of this writing, the post has over 9,600 responses. Most of them are heartbreaking.
“My daughter was raped while in the army,” said one responder. “They took her to the hospital where an all male staff tried to convince her to give the guy a break because it would ruin his life. She persisted. Wouldn’t back down. Did a tour in Iraq. Now suffers from PTSD.”
“I’ve had the same nightmare almost every night for the past 15 years,”said another.
Tweet after tweet after tweet, people used the opportunity that the Army had inadvertently given them to describe how they or their loved one had been chewed up and spit out by a war machine that never cared about them.
This article exists solely to document a few of the things that have been posted in that space, partly to help spread public awareness and partly in case the thread gets deleted in the interests of “national security”. Here’s a sampling in no particular order:
“Someone I loved joined right out of high school even though I begged him not to. Few months after his deployment ended, we reconnected. One night, he told me he loved me and then shot himself in the head. If you’re gonna prey on kids for imperialism, at least treat their PTSD.”
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“After I came back from overseas I couldn’t go into large crowds without a few beers in me. I have nerve damage in my right ear that since I didn’t want to look weak after I came back I lied to the VA rep. My dad was exposed to agent orange which destroyed his lungs, heart, liver and pancreas and eventually killing him five years ago. He was 49, exposed at a post not Vietnam, and will never meet my daughter my nephew. I still drink to much and I crowds are ok most days but I have to grocery shop at night and can’t work days because there is to many ppl.”
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“The dad of my best friend when I was in high school had served in the army. He struggled with untreated PTSD & severe depression for 30 years, never told his family. Christmas eve of 2010, he went to their shed to grab the presents & shot himself in the head. That was the first funeral I attended where I was actually told the cause of death & the reasons surrounding it. I went home from the service, did some asking around, & found that most of the funerals I’ve attended before have been caused by untreated health issues from serving.”
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“My dad was drafted into war and was exposed to agent orange. I was born w multiple physical/neurological disabilities that are linked back to that chemical. And my dad became an alcoholic with ptsd and a side of bipolar disorder.”
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“i met this guy named christian who served in iraq. he was cool, had his own place with a pole in the living room. always had lit parties. my best friend at the time started dating him so we spent a weekend at his crib. after a party, 6am, he took out his laptop. he started showing us some pics of his time in the army. pics with a bunch of dudes. smiling, laughing. it was cool. i was drunk and didn’t care. he started showing us pics of some little kids. after a while, his eyes went completely fucking dark. i was like man, dude’s high af. he very calmly explained to us that all of those kids were dead ‘but that’s what war was. dead kids and nothing to show for it but a military discount’. christian killed himself 2 months later.”
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“I didn’t serve but my dad did. In Vietnam. It eventually killed him, slowly, over a couple of decades. When the doctors were trying to put in a pacemaker to maybe extend his life a couple of years, his organs were so fucked from the Agent Orange, they disintegrated to the touch. He died when I was ten. He never saw me graduate high school. He never saw me get my first job or buy my first car. He wasn’t there. But hey! Y’all finally paid out 30k after another vet took the VA to the Supreme Court, so. You know. It was cool for him.”
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“Chronic pain with a 0% disability rating (despite medical discharge) so no benefits, and anger issues that I cope with by picking fistfights with strangers.”
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“My parents both served in the US Army and what they got was PTSD for both of them along with anxiety issues. Whenever we go out in public and sit down somewhere my dad has to have his back up against the wall just to feel a measure of comfort that no one is going to sneak up on him and kill him and and walking up behind either of them without announcing that you’re there is most likely going to either get you punch in the face or choked out.”
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“Many of my friends served. All are on heavy antidepressant/anxiety meds, can’t make it through 4th of July or NYE, and have all dealt with heavy substance abuse problems before and after discharge. And that’s on top of one crippled left hand, crushed vertebra, and GSWs.”
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“Left my talented and young brother a broken and disabled man who barely leaves the house. Left my mother hypervigilant & terrified due to the amount of sexual assault & rape covered up and looked over by COs. Friend joined right out if HS, bullet left him paralyzed neck down.”
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“My cousin went to war twice and came back with a drug addiction that killed him. My other cousin could never get paid on time and when he left they tried to withhold his pay.”
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“It’s given me a fractured spine, TBI, combat PTSD, burn pit exposure, and a broken body with no hope of getting better. Not even medically retired for a fractured spine. WTF.”
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“Y’all killed my father by failing to provide proper treatments after multiple tours.”
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“Everyone I know got free PTSD and chemical exposure and a long engagement in their efforts to have the US pay up for college tuition. Several lives ruined. No one came out better. Thank god my recruiter got a DUI on his way to get me or I would be dead or worse right now.”
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“I have ptsd and still wake up crying at night. Also have a messed up leg that I probably will have to deal with the rest of my life. Depression. Anger issues.”
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“My grandfather came back from Vietnam with severe PTSD, tried to drown it in alcohol, beat my father so badly and so often he still flinches when touched 50 years later. And I grew up with an emotionally scarred father with PTSD issues of his own because of it. Good times.”
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“Hmmm. Let’s see. I lost friends, have 38 inches of scars, PTSD and a janky arm and hand that don’t work.”
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“my grandpa served in vietnam from when he was 18–25. he’s 70 now and every night he still has nightmares where he stands up tugging at the curtains or banging on the walls screaming at the top of his lungs for someone to help him. he refuses to talk about his time and when you mention anything about the war to him his face goes white and he has a panic attack. he cries almost every day and night and had to spend 10 years in a psychiatric facility for suicidal ideations from what he saw there.”
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“My best friend joined the Army straight out of high school because his family was poor & he wanted a college education. He served his time & then some. Just as he was ready to retire he was sent to Iraq. You guys sent him back in a box. It destroyed his children.”
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“Well, my father got deployed to Iraq and came back a completely different person. Couldn’t even work the same job he had been working 20 years before that because of his anxiety and PTSD. He had nightmares, got easily violent and has terrible depression. But the army just handed him pills, now he is 100% disabled and is on a shit ton of medication. He has nightmares every night, paces the house barely sleeping, checking every room just to make sure everyone’s safe. He’s had multiple friends commit suicide.”
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“Father’s a disabled Vietnam veteran who came home with severe PTSD and raging alcoholism. VA has continuously ignored him throughout the years and his medical needs and he receives very little compensation for all he’s gone through. Thanks so much!!”
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“I was #USNavy, my husband was #USArmy, he served in Bosnia and Iraq and that nice, shy, funny guy was gone, replaced with a withdrawn, angry man…he committed suicide a few years later…when I’m thanked for my service, I just nod.”
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“I’m permanently disabled because I trained through severe pain after being rejected from the clinic for ‘malingering.’ Turns out my pelvis was cracked and I ended up having to have hip surgery when I was 20 years old.”
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“My brother went into the Army a fairly normal person, became a Ranger (Ft. Ord) & came out a sociopath. He spent the 1st 3 wks home in his room in the dark, only coming out at night when he thought we were asleep. He started doing crazy stuff. Haven’t seen him since 1993.”
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“Recently attended the funeral for a west point grad with a 4yr old and a 7yr old daughter because he blew his face off to escape his ptsd but thats nothing new.”
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“I don’t know anyone in my family who doesn’t suffer from ptsd due to serving. One is signed off sick due to it & thinks violence is ok. Another (navy) turned into a psycho & thought domestic violence was the answer to his wife disobeying his orders.”
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“My dad served during vietnam, but after losing close friends and witnessing the killing of innocents by the U.S., he refused to redeploy. He has suffered from PTSD ever since. The bravest thing he did in the army was refuse to fight any longer, and I’m so proud of him for that.”
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“My best friend from high school was denied his mental health treatment and forced to return to a third tour in Iraq, despite having such deep trauma that he could barely function. He took a handful of sleeping pills and shot himself in the head two weeks before deploying.”
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“Bad back, hips, and knees. Lack of trust, especially when coming forward about sexual harassment. Detachment, out of fear of losing friends. Missed birthdays, weddings, graduations, and funerals. I get a special license plate tho.”
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“My son died 10 months ago. He did 3 overseas tours. He came back with severe mental illness.”
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“I’m still in and I’m in constant pain and they recommended a spinal fusion when I was 19. Y’all also won’t update my ERB so I can’t use the education benefits I messed myself up for.”
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“My dad served two tours in middle east and his personality changes have affected my family forever. VA ‘counseling’ has a session limit and doesn’t send you to actual psychologists. Military service creates a mental health epidemic it is then woefully unequipped to deal with.”
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“My best childhood friend lost his mind after his time in the marines and now he lives in a closet in his mons house and can barely hold a conversation with anyone. He only smokes weed and drinks cough syrup that he steals since he can’t hold a job.”
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“After coming back from Afghanistan…..Matter fact I don’t even want to talk about it. Just knw that my PTSD, bad back, headaches, chronic pain, knee pain, and other things wishes I would have NEVER signed that contract. It was NOT worth the pain I’ll endure for the rest of life.”
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“My cousin served and came back only to be diagnosed with schizophrenia and ptsd. There were nights that he would lock himself in the bathroom and stay in the corner because he saw bodies in the bathtub. While driving down the highway, he had another episode and drove himself into a cement barrier, engulfing his Jeep in flames and burning alive. My father served as well and would never once speak of what he witnessed and had to do. He said it’s not something that any one person should ever be proud of.”
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“I was sexually assaulted by a service member at 17 when I visited my sister on her base, then again at 18. My friend got hooked on k2 and died after the va turned him away for mental health help. Another friend serving was exploited sexually by her co and she was blamed for it.”
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“I spent ten years in the military. I worked 15 hour days to make sure my troops were taken care of. In return for my hard work I was rewarded with three military members raping me. I was never promoted to a rank that made a difference. And I have an attempt at suicide. Fuck you!”
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“I actually didn’t get around to serving because I was sexually assaulted by three of my classmates during a military academy prep program. They went to the academies and are still active duty officers. I flamed out of the program and have PTSD.”
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“My father’s successful military career taught him that he’s allowed to use violence to make people do what he wants because America gave him that power.”
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“While I was busy framing ‘soliders and families first’ (lol) propaganda posters, my best friend went to ‘Iraqistan’ but he didn’t come back. He returned alive, to be sure, but he was no longer the fun, carefree, upbeat person he’d previously been.”
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“My husband is a paraplegic and can’t control 3/4 of his body now. Me, I’ve got PTSD, an anxiety disorder, two messed up knees, depression, a bad back, tinnitus, and chronic insomnia. I wish both had never served.”
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“This is one of the most heartbreaking threads I’ve ever read.”
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“I am so sorry. The way we fail our service members hurts my heart. My grandfather served in the Korean War and had nightmares until his death at 91 years old. We must do better.”
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“My Army story is that when I was in high school, recruiters were there ALL the time- at lunch, clubs, etc.- targeting the poor kids at school. I didn’t understand it until now. You chew people who have nothing at home up and spit them out.”
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“I was thinking about enlisting until I saw this thread. Hard pass.”
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“I hope to god that the Army has enough guts to read these and realize how badly our servicepeople are being treated. Thank you and god bless you to all of you in this thread, and your loved ones who are suffering too.”
Iv’e already said everything I can say and can’t add anything to the replies that hasn’t been added regarding my experience.
How about a prayer for the living dead who are so messed up from the drugs they have been and will continue to given that is trapping them in a hell worse than anything we can fully comprehend. My buddies who are still breathing are so far into the VA Psychotropic machine they can’t even have a complete thought but the torment remains.
I pray they find the grace and peace that only Christ can offer. I will personally spend as much time as needed with anyone who wants to begin the journey.
I spent 4 years as an 11B infantry soldier. It was the worst time of my life at the same time as being the best time of my life. I made friends with some of the best people I’ve ever known and also encountered the biggest assholes I’ve ever known. Colossal assholes. The Army is chock full of assholes top to bottom. Assholishness is encouraged, cultivated and promoted. When you get a boss who is a total dick there isn’t anything you can do except suck it up. You can’t quit and you can’t transfer. You are owned by that motherfucker until your time is up. I developed a powerful drinking habit that I’ve been fighting/embracing ever since.
The VA is a dope pusher. Bad, bad, bad harmful dope.