Dear Liberal…Here’s Why I’m So Hostile

Hat tip Sonic

Guest Post by Jeremy N. Choate

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This essay is a bit of departure from my usually reasonable and logical approach to important issues.  That’s not to say that the essay isn’t well-reasoned and is bereft of logical argumentation, but I freely admit that it’s polemical, in nature.  Sometimes you’re just pissed, and you need to vent.  Here’s my vent…

Lately, I must admit that my hostility towards your political ilk has ramped up, pretty dramatically.  No, it’s not because we, at this point in my life, have a half-black president in the White House, and I’m some closet racist who is becoming increasingly frustrated at the prospects of the White Man’s power slipping through my fingers.  I know that you’ve accused our side of such nonsense, and the thought keeps you warm at night, but I can assure you that it is a comfortable fiction of which you should probably divest yourself.

Now before I waste too much of your time, let’s establish who I’m talking to.  If you believe that we live in an evil, imperialist nation from its founding, and you believe that it should be “fundamentally transformed”, lend me your ears.  If you believe that the free market is the source of the vast majority of society’s ills and wish to have more government intervention into it, I’m talking to you.  If you believe that health care is a basic human right and that government should provide it to everyone, you’re the guy I’m screaming at.  If you think minorities cannot possibly survive in this inherently racist country without handouts and government mandated diversity quotas, you’re my guy.  If you believe that rich people are that way because they’ve exploited their workers and acquired wealth on the backs of the poor, keep reading.  Pretty much, if you trust government more than your fellow American, this post is for you.

First of all, let me say that we probably agree on more things than you think.  Even between Tea Party Patriots and Occupy Wall-Streeters, I’ve observed a common hatred of the insidious alliance between big business and big government.  As Representative Paul Ryan (R-WI) so correctly noted, government should never be in the business of picking winners and losers in corporate America, and no person, organization, union, or corporation should have their own key to the back door of our government.

Second, contrary to popular belief, conservatives really are concerned with the plight of the poor in this nation.  You accuse us of being uncompassionate, hateful, racist, and greedy, but studies have shown that when it comes to charitable giving, conservatives are at least (if not more, depending on the study you read) as generous as liberals in caring for the poor.  The difference between us is not in our attitude towards the problem – it’s our attitude towards the solution.  We believe that the government does practically nothing well (since without competition or a profit motive there is no incentive to do well) and has made the plight of the poor far worse than it would have ever been had government never gotten involved.  For a stark example of this, look no farther than the condition of the black family in America since the “War on Poverty” began.  You believe that more government is the answer, and that if we only throw more money at the problem, the problem will go away.  We believe, as Reagan so aptly stated,

Government is not the solution to our problems;  government is the problem.

Third, as people who might actually have to avail ourselves of a doctor’s services at some point in our lives, we are just as concerned with the condition of America’s healthcare system as you are.  While we believe that America has the world’s most capable physicians, has the world’s most innovative pharmaceutical industry, and is on the cutting edge of medical technology, we also understand that the delivery system is far from perfect.  However, unlike you, we see a grave danger in turning the administration of that delivery system over to the same entity that is responsible for giving us the United States Postal Service.  There are private sector solutions that should certainly be explored before we kill the system, altogether, by giving it to the government to run.

Now that we’ve touched on a couple of points of common ground, allow me to explain my aggressiveness towards your efforts to implement your progressive agenda.  First, let’s talk about the word “progressive”, since you now seem to prefer that word to “liberal”.  In order to label something as progressive or regressive, one must have some idea as to what constitutes progress.  What is the ideal towards which you are striving?  An idea is considered progressive if it moves us closer to the ideal and regressive if it moves us further away.  So, what is your ideal society?

Though I can’t begin to discern the thoughts of every liberal who may read this, nor can I assume that every liberal has the same notion of an ideal society, in my arguments with liberals over the years, I couldn’t help but notice the influence that FDR’s Second Bill of Rights has had in shaping the beliefs of the modern liberal with regards to domestic policy.  The rights that FDR cited are:

  • The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
  • The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
  • The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
  • The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
  • The right of every family to a decent home;
  • The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
  • The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
  • The right to a good education.

At this point, you’re probably screaming, “Right on!!”, and who can blame you?  What sane person in the world doesn’t want everyone to be gainfully employed, adequately fed, smartly clothed, appropriately sheltered, and properly educated?  These are the goals of every moral society on the planet, however we cannot ignore the fundamental question of, “At what cost?”

I’m not sure whether FDR was a shallow thinker or simply a shrewd, Machiavellian politician, but the fact that he framed each of these ideals as a human right should be troubling to every freedom-loving person in America.  After all, what does it mean for something to be a human right?  Doesn’t it mean that it’s something to which you are entitled simply by virtue of your being human?  Let’s think about some of the basic rights that the real Bill of Rights delineates: freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to petition the government, freedom to bear arms, freedom from illegal search and seizure, etc.

If you’re moderately intelligent and intellectually honest, you’ll quickly see what separates the rights laid out in the real Bill of Rights from those laid out in FDR’s misguided list – none of the rights listed above require the time, treasure, or talents of another human being.  Your right to speak requires nothing from anyone else.  Your right to practice your religion requires nothing from any of your fellow citizens.  Your right to bear arms means that you are allowed to possess weapons to defend yourself and your family, but it makes no demand that a weapon be provided to you by anyone.  A true human right is one that you possess, even if you’re the only person on the entire planet – and it is unconditional.

FDR’s list is no “Bill of Rights”.  It’s a list of demands.  If I have a right to a job, doesn’t that mean that one must be provided to me?  If I have a right to adequate food, clothing, and recreation, doesn’t that mean that I am entitled to those things, and someone should provide them to me?  If I have an inherent right to a decent home, once again, doesn’t that mean it should be provided to me, regardless of my ability to afford one or build one for myself?

You might protest that FDR only meant that we have the right to pursue those things, but that’s not what he said, and why would he?  If we live in a free society, our right to pursue those things is self-evident, is it not?  Besides, if he only believed in our right to pursue those things, he would not have felt the need to implement the New Deal.

You may be getting anxious, now, wondering what FDR’s Second Bill of Rights has to do with my antipathy towards your political philosophy.  It’s quite simple – your political beliefs are a threat to liberty – not just for me, but for my three boys and their children as well.  I care much less about the America that I’m living in at this very moment than I do about the one that I’m leaving Nathaniel, Charlie, and Jackson.

How does your political bent threaten my and my sons personal liberty, you ask?  In your irrational attempt to classify things such as clothing, shelter, health care, employment, and income as basic human rights, you are placing a demand upon my time, my treasure, and my talents.  If you believe that you have a right to health care, and you are successful in persuading enough shallow thinkers to think as you do, then it will place a demand upon me to provide it to you.  If you believe that you have a right to a job, and more than half of America agrees with you, as a business owner, I am obligated to provide one to you, even if it means making my business less profitable.

The fact is, you can rail against my conservatism all you wish.  You can make fun of my Tea Party gatherings, and you can ridicule patriots in tri-corner hats until you wet yourself from mirth, but one thing is for certain: my political philosophy will NEVER be a threat to your freedom.  If you feel a burning responsibility to the poor, conservatism will never prevent you from working 80 hours per week and donating all of your income to charity.  If you feel a strong sense of pity for a family who cannot afford health insurance, my political philosophy will never prevent you from purchasing health insurance for this family or raising money to do so, if you cannot afford it, personally.  If you are moved with compassion for a family who is homeless, a conservative will never use the police power of government to prevent you from taking that family in to your own home or mobilizing your community to build one for them.

However, you cannot say the same for liberalism.  If I choose not to give to the poor for whatever reason, you won’t simply try to persuade me on the merits of the idea – you will seek to use the government as an instrument of plunder to force me to give to the poor.  If we are walking down the street together and we spot a homeless person, using this logic, you would not simply be content with giving him $20 from your own pocket – you would hold a gun to my head and force me to give him $20, as well.

Everything that modern liberalism accomplishes is accomplished at the barrel of a government rifle.  You do not trust in the generosity of the American people to provide, through private charity, things such as clothing, food, shelter, and health care, so you empower the government to take from them and spend the money on wasteful, inefficient, and inadequate government entitlement programs.  You do not trust in the personal responsibility of the average American to wield firearms in defense of themselves and their families, so you seek to empower the government to criminalize the use and possession of firearms by private citizens.  Everytime you empower the government, you lose more of your personal liberty – it’s an axiomatic truth.

What angers me the most about you is the eagerness with which you allow the incremental enslavement to occur.  You are the cliched and proverbial frog in the pot who has actually convinced himself that he’s discovered a big, silver jacuzzi.  Somehow, you’re naive enough to believe that one more degree of heat won’t really matter that much.

I have the utmost respect for a slave who is continuously seeking a path to freedom.  What I cannot stomach is a free man who is continuous seeking a path to servitude by willingly trading his freedom for the false sense of security that government will provide.

I am reminded of Samuel Adams’ impassioned speech where he stated:

“If ye love wealth (or security) better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”

Servitude can exist in a free society, but freedom cannot exist in a slave nation.  In a free country, you have the liberty to join with others of your political ilk and realize whatever collectivist ideals you can dream up.  You can start your own little commune where the sign at the front gate says, “From each according to his ability; to each according to his need”, and everyone can work for the mutual benefit of everyone else.  In my society, you have the freedom to do that.

In your society, I don’t have the same freedom.  If your collectivism offends me, I am not free to start my own free society within its borders.  In order for collectivism to work, everyone must be on board, even those who oppose it – why do you think there was a Berlin Wall?

In conclusion, just know that the harder you push to enact your agenda, the more hostile I will become – the harder I will fight you.  It’s nothing personal, necessarily.  If you want to become a slave to an all-powerful central government, be my guest.  But if you are planning to take me and my family down with you, as we say down here in the South, I will stomp a mud-hole in your chest and walk it dry.

Bring it.

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42 Comments
Southern Sage
Southern Sage
January 3, 2016 9:41 am

Very good, but actually white men (and women) have every right to be outraged at the creeping loss of what their ancestors built, a country no other race ever did or could have built. Left in the hands of blacks and other non-whites it is absolutely doomed and that is a simple fact. The worst part is that other whites – liberals – are to blame for all of it. I am not merely pissed off at them. I see liberals as a plague virus who must be dealt with if our country and the world is to survive.

As for the café au lait clown in the White House, yes, I am outraged by it but that is a side issue. He has committed treason on numerous occasions, he violates Federal law every day and we have no idea if he is legally the president. He is a homosexual, which proves his mental instability – normal men do not engage in a parody of sex with other men. Before you snort about “birthers” let me point out that his Hawaii birth certificate is obviously a recently produced piece of paper and no attending physician is named – there wasn’t one, at least in Hawaii. He was most likely born in Vancouver, Canada to a mother unable to pass on citizenship because of her age. More importantly he has deliberately concealed his college records. This was not because of his shame over bad grades or a moronic term paper (as the case with his wife might show) but because he almost certainly attended college as a foreign student, possibly listing his true place of birth and certainly claiming another citizenship (Indonesian or Kenyan), and accepting money on that basis. These would probably constitute expatriating acts with regard to his eligibility to run for office.

it is really tedious to have point out why liberals have to be driven from public life if the country is to survive, but you will all learn the truth soon enough. It will be forced upon you.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
January 3, 2016 9:52 am

I get the angry response, I do, but that way leads to defeat and disillusionment. You have to find a way to get past it so that you can make real changes, one person at a time.

People who would disagree with this position are not likely to listen to the message. Getting oneself worked up trying to communicate with them is not a productive use of one’s time. Prepare for the future, train up your sons and daughters in the ways of truth and honorable pursuits and in all ways set an example of how to live not in opposition to your ideological rivals, but elevated above them so that they may see another way of life. That’s something you can do that will not only improve your lot, but those of your posterity.

Stucky
Stucky
January 3, 2016 10:15 am

“I see liberals as a plague virus who must be dealt with if our country and the world is to survive.” ——-Southern Sage

I don’t disagree with this.

HOWEVER, they hate us with equal fervor.

Many people in this country will die when TSHTF.

Isn’t there another way?

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
January 3, 2016 10:24 am

Liberals would argue that it’s conservatives who are against freedom – freedom to abort their children and freedom to get gay-married.

Anonymous
Anonymous
January 3, 2016 10:32 am

“Isn’t there another way?”

No.

Everything else has already been tried.

Same way it was back in the early 1770’s, all else had failed and there was no choice to be had other than what was done.

A shame, our Constitution and its limits on what government was allowed to do was to prevent this happening again, but we decided we’d just sort of ignore that and consider it a list of suggestions instead of absolute and supreme law.

Anonymous
Anonymous
January 3, 2016 10:34 am

Iska,

I would argue that the Constitution doesn’t give the Federal government any authority over those things -the 9th and 10th would leave that to the individual States and the people according to their own Constitutions- not that anyone much cares to pay attention to that any longer.

Hollow man
Hollow man
January 3, 2016 10:56 am

Split the country.

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
January 3, 2016 11:24 am

Anon says:

“No.

Everything else has already been tried.

Same way it was back in the early 1770’s, all else had failed and there was no choice to be had other than what was done.”

Remember when you make statements such as this that American Rev #1 will not be repeated. There is no political movement behind the anger emanating from the right/libertarian side – only the left (they hold the strings of power). This means that when the TSHTF whatever comes of it will more closely resemble the French Revolution than the American. If you are not intimately familiar with that cluster fuck and what it gave birth to then you should do some home work and pray for something better.

NickelthroweR
NickelthroweR
January 3, 2016 11:27 am

Greetings,

I used to think that the liberals would just fade away as they lack any talent to actually produce anything of value. If they were producers then they would understand the folly of their behavior. With this in mind, I did not see them as much of a threat.

Recently, I’ve had a change of heart as I’ve come to realize that what we are facing are Red Guard Maoists. They wish to have their Day One but realize that they can only do so by annihilation of the past and a radical transformation of the culture. Seriously, any day now I expect to see book burnings at our college campuses as these guys, just like the Red Guards, are anti intellectual.

I expected any number of problems as the poisoned land stopped producing, the aquifers ran dry and the banking system imploded but the one thing I didn’t expect was this. Can any of you imagine what their Great Leap Forward would look like?

If there were any doubt as to whom the enemy were, it is them – the Maoists. They should be resisted by any means possible as history shows us what happens when the Red Guard is turned loose. If you are not sure of what I am referring to then I would suggest looking up some of the words and terms I used.

jamesthewanderer
jamesthewanderer
January 3, 2016 11:46 am

From Francis Marion (nice avatar, by the way):
“There is no political movement behind the anger emanating from the right/libertarian side – only the left (they hold the strings of power). ”
Did you entirely miss the Tea Party? It’s why a LOT of Republicans got elected in the last eight years. True, they are not into violence, but trying to change the system and direction BACK into what the Constitution authorizes – but it’s there.
The harder groups (like the Militia / Bundy types that took over that Federal building) are a response to those in power IGNORING the entire Tea Party movement, “going around Congress because they have had long enough to act”, and similar unConstitutional acts that still haven’t resulted in impeachment, which the Constitution DOES authorize.

jamesthewanderer
jamesthewanderer
January 3, 2016 11:52 am

HSF wisely said:

“Prepare for the future, train up your sons and daughters in the ways of truth and honorable pursuits and in all ways set an example of how to live not in opposition to your ideological rivals, but elevated above them so that they may see another way of life. That’s something you can do that will not only improve your lot, but those of your posterity.”

Agreed, but some kind of Constitutional resistance is also necessary. Otherwise, you will spend your productive life building farms, businesses and lives that the Maoist Guards (per NickelthroweR) will take away at the point of a gun. LACK OF RESPECT for property rights is a cornerstone of the Maoist / Leninist operating system – since they can’t build, they HAVE to take away from those who can. Until no one can build and keep what THEY built.

“You didn’t build that” is a mindset, not a fact, but they act like it is. And all suffer for their ignorance.

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
January 3, 2016 11:53 am

NickelthroweR,

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

I would add that the maoists/marxists KNOW that they control the media, the bulwark of government, the educational institutions and the ability of many to simply eat and survive. They are prepared to crash the system using these tentacles but they are waiting at this stage – to allow the right to do it for them – or at the very least – to cause it to appear that those who believe in a better way are responsible for the west’s demise. They know if they can accomplish this that the bulk of the people will clamour to them for more ‘help’ and finally hand them the keys to the kingdom – lock stock and barrel.

At this stage many are playing into their hands. The marxists LOVE violence and the ends that it can bring – especially when it has no REAL political movement behind it.

If you think what is going on in Oregon right now does not play right into their hands then guess again. It absolutely does. If it escalates it will do little more than provide them with an excuse to ratchet control up a little more and to marginalize people like us.

We need a new way. I have some ideas. I will put them to paper and publish here later in the new year.

Francis

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
January 3, 2016 11:54 am

Stucky won’t approve that I bring this up BUT the communist NWO is a tribal project. Undermining the efforts of this certain group would go a long way to limiting the damage they have done.

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
January 3, 2016 11:56 am

James,

The entire western world needs a solution to this problem. The Tea Party is an American thing (I’m not American) – the solution needs to be universal and applicable everywhere it is embraced. Moreover – a political solution cannot function within the confines of the actual system itself. It is the system that is the problem and playing within it at this stage is a losing proposition. The Tea Party was finished before it even began because of this.

Suzanna
Suzanna
January 3, 2016 12:00 pm

I know many liberals. They have sneered at me because I spoke
of conservative values . The mainstay of liberals is talking about
how much they care. They care about injustice, and they exploit
the poor to make their argument. Many will go so far as to admit
they believe people of color, eg, are inferior and can not be expected
to achieve a decent standard of living without help. The help…is tax
payer/government funded subsidies. There is a guilt felt by the superior
liberal, and they hope to assuage it by giving. But they may give little
more than lip service…they seek to give through monies extracted at the
point of a gun by government. The true message…the real one, is to buy
people off, and get them gone. The liberal can then live his life free from
guilt and bask in his superiority.

bb
bb
January 3, 2016 12:01 pm

Nickel Thrower / Francis Marion…. one big difference is conservatives / libertarians are well armed.. The red guard could be stopped very quickly if enough white people decided to fight. Plus liberals loved their creature comfort.Just knocking out the electricity would render most liberals useless especially in the big cities.

I have learned just interacting with liberal leftists ideologues in my family that there is no way you will ever change their minds . They hate this nation and they hate you if you disagree with them.I have no common cause with these people .I would prefer to live and let live but these leftists will not let us.Only solution is a total secession from the Federal government/ Federal Reserve.Then again they will not let us peaceful secede. Will they ?

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
January 3, 2016 12:14 pm

bb,

The marxists control the narrative. We need to change the narrative. Until then all your talk about guns, turning off the power and shooting people makes you nothing more than a potential criminal.

I believe that consciousness creates reality. It does not take a genius to see this is true. Before we had the Lamborghini we had a vision – Henry Ford’s dream. The Lamborghini is the evolution of Ford’s consciousness over time.

In order to make things better there must be a new vision. Your founder’s vision must evolve and replace the narrative that the marxists have created. To do do that it must have infrastructure and a movement behind it – globally. Until that time arrives we are travelling down a very dark road. As such – in this day and age I would advise caution when running your mouth and especially your keyboard before your brain.

Anonymous
Anonymous
January 3, 2016 12:21 pm

Keep in mind that our founders – rough equivalent of actual conservatives today- tried and tried every possible political solution time and again till there was no hope for them to enjoy their natural rights as British subjects the same as in England.

Even then it took the British Military attacking and viciously firing on them at the Lexington Concord bridge to start the revolution. Something that, against all odds for the colonists, didn’t work out well for the British ruling powers in the end.

Gayle
Gayle
January 3, 2016 12:23 pm

There is no happy ending to the American experiment, is there? Either there will be a bloody war with questionable outcome, or there will be descent into a statist Paradise and its accompanying loss of personal liberty and economic/social vigor. Should the world hold together long enough, it will be up to future generations to initiate and complete another cycle of man’s management of the world. Turnings, you know.

Suzanna
Suzanna
January 3, 2016 12:26 pm

I get the need and desire to vent. The primal scream…leave us alone!!
I think I know why the libs hate conservative thinkers…they know we are right!

The libs are thieves under cover of caring. They care…and care and care.
They feign superiority to cover inferiority. And the weapon they use to hang
on to their power is to attack/accuse others of not caring. Another cardinal
sin. “You are a racist and you do not care.” Case closed.

The gov. has grown into a gigantic unmanageable corrupt bureaucracy that
can not be unwound. They will set their armies against any descent. I doubt
the big wigs that head the stealing forces have any loyalty beyond keeping
their system in place. Themselves and their foul system.

Civil war? That would be sinking to the absolute lowest. Murdering neighbors
either in self defense or aggression? No, no and no.

Maybe it would be best to *segregate. Concentrate any efforts to “opt out.”
I love it…the opt out clause/choice. Shun the libs and shun the gov. But how?
That is the question.

*not by race or creed but by belief and deed.

jamesthewanderer
jamesthewanderer
January 3, 2016 2:11 pm

Frances Marion is awake and thinking this morning:

“The entire western world needs a solution to this problem.”

Solutions will not be one-size-fits-all; the individual societies will have to generate their own. Central planning does not work because central thinking fails in individual circumstances. If you want freedom, you have to fight for it – my fighting will not bring you freedom (unless I’m Count Pulaski or Lafayette, who came over to America during the Revolution).

“The Tea Party is an American thing (I’m not American) – the solution needs to be universal and applicable everywhere it is embraced.”

See above.

“Moreover – a political solution cannot function within the confines of the actual system itself. It is the system that is the problem and playing within it at this stage is a losing proposition. The Tea Party was finished before it even began because of this.”

The Founders set up a system that could be adapted, amended, modified as experience advised and changed when necessary. Failure to impeach is not the Founder’s fault, it is ours for not getting it done. Throw out enough Democrat obstructionists and RINOs and impeachment becomes a reality – although not trivial. Reducing the government back to its functional size and scope is not impossible, yet, but is very, very difficult – and may require another Revolution. Can’t quite say yet.

“A Republic, madam, if you can keep it” – Benjamin Franklin, after the Constitutional Convention I believe

bb
bb
January 3, 2016 2:28 pm

Francis Marion , I’m not going to do anything violent until I have no other choice. At this point having guns and the will to use them is the only thing stopping these leftists ideologues. The future generations will not have the will to resist .As you said the Marxist control the educational system ,New Media and Hollywood. They control the narrative.

All I’m saying is one day we will have to fight or lose everything including our REPUBLIC. Cutting off electricity / water would stop these people very quickly. One more thing Francis you already are a criminal in their eyes. You a racist , bigot who stole what you have from people of color. You maintain you position through white privilege.Understand , you are already guilty in their minds.They hate you.

robert h siddell jr
robert h siddell jr
January 3, 2016 3:37 pm

Have no doubt that the leftist will start the slaughtering in our inner cities and BHO will be their biggest cheerleader.

Westcoaster
Westcoaster
January 3, 2016 3:38 pm

The problem with so-called “Conservative values” is they’re hypocritical. Liberals didn’t get the U.S. to bankrupt status without a lot of help from the neocon branch of the GOP. Last tally I saw for the cost of all the middle east wars is about $4 Trillion. You conservatives can’t deny that the neocons took over your party and now are still in charge of U.S. foreign policy, regardless of the HNIC. So isn’t it just a tad hypocritical to on the one hand be a warmonger and spend that taxpayer money freely, in conflicts we’ve essentially created as an imperialist power, while at the same time decrying any taxpayer money spent on social welfare? And I’m not talking about “Obama phones”, I’ll agree that’s bullshit.

Face it, we the people have been sliced, diced, and wedge-issued six ways from Sunday, and those at the top want to keep us divided over bullshit like this piece which serves no real purpose.

As a progressive libertarian, seems to me it’s high time to stop using the old Liberal vs Conservative name tags because “united we stand, divided we fall”, the motto of the Commonwealth of KY, is more true today than ever before in our history as a nation.

Let’s vow in 2016 to try and find common ground between the political sensibilities instead of rubbing salt into old wounds.

Suzanna
Suzanna
January 3, 2016 4:18 pm

Coast…

maybe in the past

now? there is not a whit of difference in the motives
of D v R. Political philosophy is a different animal.

Westcoaster
Westcoaster
January 3, 2016 4:22 pm

@Suzanna: “there is not a whit of difference in the motives
of D v R.”. So, Suzanna, I take it you and I are in agreement?

What we SHOULD be doing right about the now is figuring out how much we agree and working toward common goals, rather than each side blasting the other about how “they’re WRONG”!

Debbils Advocate
Debbils Advocate
January 3, 2016 4:51 pm

“Somebody will say, ‘Oh, freedom of speech, freedom of speech.’ These are foolish people.” ~Donald Trump

Trump 2016!

Westcoaster
Westcoaster
January 3, 2016 5:10 pm

@Debbils A: Can you REALLY say “Trump 2016” when Trump has expressed his opinion that Snowden is a traitor and should be hanged? Or do you agree with un-Constitutional NSA spying on Americans?

Anonymous
Anonymous
January 3, 2016 6:19 pm

Westcoaster,

What do you propose those “common” goals are?

Specifically, not sweeping generalizations that mean something different to each person reading them.

I’m thinking you may be meaning “liberal goals” instead of “common goals”. That’s the usual case when a leftist calls for working together.

Westcoaster
Westcoaster
January 3, 2016 7:15 pm

@Anonymous Coward: First, I’m not a “leftist” but I am a Progressive Libertarian.

Here’s my top 5 list of importance:

1. U.S. foreign policy must immediately revert to a “hands off” policy on the governments of other countries. We must close 95% of all bases around the world, and bring the troops, civilian employees, and contractors home. This doesn’t include embassies, but the CIA must not be housed there. Unless we’re attacked, then we blast the hell out of the country that did the attacking. If you believe the official 911 story, then Saudi Arabia should be reverting from molten glass to solid about now. And the CIA, DIA, and NSA should be shut down. End the Obama drone murder program.

2. All EO’s or laws passed since the founding of the U.S. that are in any way in contravention of the Constitution must be made null and void. The Constitution must be upheld and this includes gun ownership and carrying.

3. Repeal of all drug laws, except those in place to protect the public from the Pharmaceutical industry. From a tax on sale of drugs, fund treatment programs if needed. Once drugs are legal, they’ll not cost nearly as much and crime will be reduced.

4. Prosecute those responsible for the economic meltdown of 2008 just as we did in the S&L crisis. Prosecute those responsible for 911 and war crimes since then including torture. This includes Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Obama, etc. etc. Seal our borders and don’t let anyone in the back door. End H1B visas; vet all other visas carefully.

5. End welfare as we know it. What would replace it would require work, be temporary unless disabled, and NOT reward popping out additional children. No I would not abolish abortion but it would be illegal after the 1st trimester except in extreme cases (mother’s life at stake, etc.). Social Security would be fully funded by eliminating the income cap. Money would be required to be set aside not used as a slush fund.

Now, how many of you here disagree with any of this and why? And why aren’t we having dialogs like this in order to organize and move ahead, instead of bashing each other over what we don’t agree on?

Boycott Sam's
Boycott Sam's
January 3, 2016 7:21 pm

I pondered this a little and it goes back to when the usa became incorporated in 1871 ? My dates prolly wrong . But at that point , the constitution was done with . Basically in secret . So ,Virtally everyone alive today in the US is not under the constitution , we have no standing anymore because , there is no legal adherence to it any longer.
So since corporations where determined to be people, they can do and act as they wish , sorta.

Odd thought, if corporations where determined by the supreme court to be people … and I can own shares in a corporation…. then I can own people again? hmm slavery was done away with I thought .
Just another example of why the constitution is only in effect if it serves the POCB’s purposes .

And ,yes the tribe plays a very big part in this .
Just a cook )lol

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
January 3, 2016 7:57 pm

James,

I am awake and thinking every morning – thanks. That’s why I like it here. Lots of thinking – sometimes good sometimes not so good and always cerebrally stimulating/entertaining.

The problem as I see it is two fold – it is epistemological/philosophical and it is systemic.

There is no catch all for the philosophical end of things – even in the west – there are cultural/national issues that will impede a singular way of looking at life and our existence in this world. And that is fine. But there are enough cultural and philosophical similarities to address the systemic problems that plague all of us.

Some nations are too far gone to effect change systemically but there are enough throughout the world that if there was something of a united front in creating the change I am thinking of that it would force the hands of the marxists and expose them to the world for what they truly are – violent, thieving animals.

It’s a big idea and its risky but right now it is just a ‘thing’ running around in my silly little brain looking for form and structure that is not totally ridiculous, idiotic and stupid. I’m not going to play my hand yet – I have lots of work to do and miles to go before I sleep. But I think this place is a good sounding board – the readers/writers here are thinkers and they are merciless – which is what I/we require. Give me a few months and I will flesh it out and post it – then you can hack me to pieces and criticize as required.

I’ll leave you with my favourite quote of all time (emphasis mine-obviously)…

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that _all_ men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness…”

Just remember – if these words can ring like music in the ears of a man who is NOT your countryman then it can ring in the ears of all men. The next revolution will less likely be fought in the streets, the forests and the fields of our nations and more in the minds and hearts of the human race in general. We just have to find a way to create systemic change that gives us the moral high ground – a high ground easily seen and understood even by those who are not sympathetic to the message itself. The rest of them can go fuck themselves.

Stand by.

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
January 3, 2016 8:03 pm

bb writes:

“You a racist , bigot who stole what you have from people of color. You maintain you position through white privilege.Understand , you are already guilty in their minds.They hate you.”

Yes ‘they’ do. Now quit moping about it, put your big boy panties on and take it like a man.

jamesthewanderer
jamesthewanderer
January 3, 2016 8:47 pm

Frances, at some point I hope it is my privilege to buy you a beer (or libation of choice). I can hardly wait for your article to arrive! But I will not criticize idly, unfairly or without justification.

Think on!

Rdawg
Rdawg
January 3, 2016 9:06 pm

@Westcoaster

Holy hell, I just read your top 5 and I agree across the board.
Terrifying, since you brand yourself a “progressive libertarian”. I see plenty of libertarian in there, and zero progressive as I understand the terms. I thought I might be progressive there for a second!
I think you can drop the first half of your descriptor.

Westcoaster
Westcoaster
January 3, 2016 9:14 pm

@Rdawq: Thanks for your concurrence. To me, freedom is what it’s all about. Freedom and being realistic with the situation. One things for sure, we can’t keep the status quo.

Tim Stebbins
Tim Stebbins
January 3, 2016 10:16 pm

There are a few simple realities that conservatives, patriots, and lovers of liberty must come to grips with: liberals will not, indeed, cannot be convinced that their political views are inherently destructive of liberty and security. The liberal half of the nation is completely invested in the continued growth of a central government which has long since expanded beyond the limits which the Founders sought to place upon it. The Federal power will not give up control voluntarily, neither will the oligarchs willingly relinquish the privilege and prerogatives they enjoy by virtue of the incestuous relationship they have with that same entrenched Federal power.
The descent into tyranny that we are now experiencing cannot be arrested by any political means available to us. Our Congress are a gaggle of lickspittles, inexplicably genuflecting before a maddeningly narcissistic, arrogant, race baiting, puppet Executive who despises the nation he was elected to lead. The Executive power rages unchecked. The Courts pander to every deviant segment of the population that screeches about its rights. The three branches of government have become tentacles choking the life out of our country. We were given an incredible gift by the Founders and we have squandered it.
Lest anyone think that it is only the left which is destroying the nation, the right is culpable for a host of reasons that I would like to address at some future date. The common sense middle of the political spectrum is shrinking rapidly. Right and Left are eating the Republic alive from both ends. None of it can be stopped by ordinary means. The time is rapidly approaching when sides will have to be chosen. Positions are hardening. Passivity in the face of the relentless erosion of our personal liberties and inherent rights is no longer an option. America has always and ever been an idea rather that a geographical place. The fate of that idea hangs in the balance. The fate of that idea will not be decided by votes.

jackrorabbit
jackrorabbit
January 4, 2016 12:32 am

“Liberals would argue that it’s conservatives who are against freedom – freedom to abort their children and freedom to get gay-married.”

Actually, a conservative would say, what about the right of the child to exist? See, life is one of the most basic of rights. So, unless you are using a morning after pill, which are easily obtained should your condom break or you are too lazy to use protection against pregnancy(note, rape and incest both respond to this pill), it is a violation of the rights of another person to have the freedom to abort a fetus, unless you are expecting that fetus to be something other than a human at time of birth.

Second, freedom to get married. Marriage law, that was used to give gay marriage rights over state laws, is actually based upon states blocking interracial marriage. So, striking down the law that enables any state to issue a license based upon any prerequisites would have been far better. Marriage is between only the two people involved and the church that they use, or the courthouse in lieu of a church, if you don’t believe in a God. Granting power to the government to dictate who can and cannot get married should be fought against strongly, because it encroaches upon the ninth amendment.

jackrorabbit
jackrorabbit
January 4, 2016 12:42 am

Westcoaster
“Social Security would be fully funded by eliminating the income cap. Money would be required to be set aside not used as a slush fund.”
This is the only part that I disagree with. I will tell you why. The first thing that must be done is get the law back in line with its intent. The law is call the Old Age Retirement and Disability Insurance Act. Note the key word Insurance. Insurance is there to cover the unforeseen, not the expected. When it was set up, life expectancy was roughly 62 years old, but it didn’t kick in until age 65, thus making it insurance, not retirement.

So, to make the law of use, it needs to be updated to current ages. That would be roughly 75 for men and 78 for women, and thus it would kick in at say 78 years of age, not at 65 or 67. That alone would solve the problem, rather than taking away 10% plus of income from everyone, they would have that money to invest on their own. In setting up the new system, simply make any employer payments required as direct pay raises to the employees, since that money is already set aside in their name anyway.

NickelthroweR
NickelthroweR
January 4, 2016 12:47 am

@BB

Sorry to jump back in here so late but the Red Guard I see coming will be children. World wide, children make the best soldiers for a budget conscious movement. Thirtyfive year old men don’t sleep all that well on the ground and don’t particularily like camping. It is hard for a man with a family to go and kill some other man and his family but children can be easily taught to do this and other barbaric acts and often times do it better than the adults. Children, too, don’t fully understand the importance of history and will gleefully stomp on its ashes. Children do not understand that there are consequences for pulling things apart.

You must familiarize yourself with Red Guard Maoists.

jackrorabbit
jackrorabbit
January 4, 2016 12:51 am

Westcoaster says:

“The problem with so-called “Conservative values” is they’re hypocritical. Liberals didn’t get the U.S. to bankrupt status without a lot of help from the neocon branch of the GOP. Last tally I saw for the cost of all the middle east wars is about $4 Trillion. You conservatives can’t deny that the neocons took over your party and now are still in charge of U.S. foreign policy, regardless of the HNIC. So isn’t it just a tad hypocritical to on the one hand be a warmonger and spend that taxpayer money freely, in conflicts we’ve essentially created as an imperialist power, while at the same time decrying any taxpayer money spent on social welfare? And I’m not talking about “Obama phones”, I’ll agree that’s bullshit.

Face it, we the people have been sliced, diced, and wedge-issued six ways from Sunday, and those at the top want to keep us divided over bullshit like this piece which serves no real purpose.

As a progressive libertarian, seems to me it’s high time to stop using the old Liberal vs Conservative name tags because “united we stand, divided we fall”, the motto of the Commonwealth of KY, is more true today than ever before in our history as a nation.

Let’s vow in 2016 to try and find common ground between the political sensibilities instead of rubbing salt into old wounds.”

Okay, first let’s go back to the Constitution. The military is the only spending program of those listed by you that is actually in the Constitution. However, as DDE warned us about, we have let the MIC, military industrial complex, take over the spending to a ludicrous level. So, cuts need to be made as well as war actually declared by congress, rather than by presidential fiat.

Second, the debt isn’t being driven by military expenditures, as those are set up annually and spent annually. Cutting there is the easiest to do. The debt is being driven by the social programs set up under FDR and LBJ. Currently, we owe over $100 trillion in future payments to those programs if we were to stop issuing any further promises. No matter who is elected, Medicare, Medicaid, and SSDI will continue to consume a larger and larger amount of our taxable income. Currently, those three plus interest on the debt consume about 90%+ of the tax income. In other words, spending in the military is bad, but these are atrocious. They are unfunded liabilities that are compiling at an alarming rate and will sink us if they are not fixed quickly.

razzle
razzle
January 4, 2016 12:54 am

@Francis Marion
— “Remember when you make statements such as this that American Rev #1 will not be repeated.”

One of the most fundamental differences this time is the power and the people are both on the same island now.

And there aren’t multiple nations competing for expansion into new territory that can be played off of each other.