I was asked an interesting question: “Do you believe in God?” I think most people believe in some form of a higher being and the exact form will differ around the world. Whatever the religion, there is a common theme – do unto others as you would have them do to you. Even back in Ancient Egypt, they believed everyone would be accountable for their actions upon death. It is never what someone’s words may proclaim, the proof is only in their actions.
My response to this question was rather blunt: I do not believe that those in power could possibly believe in any form of God, for if they did, they would not try to play God by manipulating society and lying to us about every possible aspect of the economy and life. Socialism/Marxism outright violates the Ten Commandments for you are not supposed to covet thy neighbor’s goods. Yet government ignores that command, declaring that freedom is bad and that they have the right to take from others who have more than they do. Yet they will prosecute someone who robs another on the street for taking goods or cash from them simply because they have it. Police kill citizens without being charged; it is alright if the government orders you to do so. Those in power ALWAYS exempt themselves form religion and law, yet pretend they are just and righteous.
You DO NOT manipulate facts, lie to the people, and then pretend you believe in God. If you believe in God and any sense of a last judgment, you cannot advocate manipulating, stealing, and then lying to the public.
Government always uses religion to manipulate the masses. Even the USA threatened the Vatican to remove it from the SWIFT system like Iran unless they too reported to whom any wire came from or was going to. So religion to government has always been just a tool to manipulate the people. They cannot advocate nor actually believe in any God and then do what they do. You do not try to end democracy to retain power and then pretend you believe in a higher power.
One’s beliefs are demonstrated, not by what they say, but by their actions.
Oh shit, I’m in trouble. My cat is suspicious. He stares out the window endlessly with a look of intense interest. I have no idea WTF he is staring at. At least I don’t have any large financial transactions to worry about.
Do you believe in Alien Abductions, Bigfoot, and GloBull Warming.
Believe in anything you desire – I don’t care, as long as your belief doesn’t affect me or my family.
Sorry , this was supposed to be posted under another article, the one about mandatory spying on customers.
NO.
All religions are full of hypocrites and bullshit artists.
Take money out of religion and politics and there will be no wars.
Believe in your spooks all you want but DON’T bang on my freaking door.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.” TPTB have a god and that god hates mankind. Watch Youtube “Best Christian Testimonies from CBN” and see the God of good fruit in action.
Without God, nothing makes sense.
Man is certainly not the epitome of intellect and creativity in the universe, there is obviously something on a higher order of existence.
None of your goddamn business.
I believe in God. I can understand and respect an atheist’s point of view (it’s no more and no less arbitrary than that of a theist), but I’ve never understood the view that God doesn’t exist because religious people are assholes. Armstrong’s article isn’t really about God. He’s pointing out that world leaders – no matter what they say – act like they’re actually atheists. I agree. If you think the existence of God depends on the behavior of men, and if de facto atheists run the world with duplicitousness, then arguably that’s evidence for God – that the biggest assholes are actually atheists. Of course, that’s no more convincing then the proposition that God doesn’t exist because a priest touched your wiener.
I sure hope there is someone or something in the universe smarter than human beings. God help us if there isn’t.
There’s a big difference between believing in gods/higher beings/global consciousness than believing in an established religion. I absolutely do believe that there is something bigger/higher than us. Consciousness came first and created our physical reality, call that consciousness what you will. I also believe that all of the established religions have been manipulated by The Powers That Be to the point that they have very little to do with honoring or increasing our beliefs in and interactions with the global consciousness and much more to do with getting us to do what TPTB want us to do.
What I’ve been wondering about lately is that, given that TPTB and a large percentage of their minions are psychopaths and sociopaths, what kind of belief system do they have? How could they believe in a greater being and act as they do? Is it our empathy that translates a belief in a higher power into our beliefs about loving our neighbors and doing unto others as we would have them do unto us? So, without that empathy perhaps TPTB can believe in a higher power that is cruel rather than kind?
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I agree Stucky.
A higher power? Where? 500,000 light years away in some distant galaxy?
And he can tell when you’re jerking off!
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Stucky- Some where there is a holodeck/activity director on a starship laughing their ass off at the things we post here on TBP. God had to be inserted into the construct so the participants would believe what they are experiencing is real BECAUSE humans have reasoning powers ( they can’t make change for a dollar but they can wonder about God).
So far, you are winning the prize for the human to experience the most religions in a lifetime and that is super cool. Most people stick to one where you keep declaring bullshit and move to a new one.
When one considers why we are here there are only two explanations, accident or purpose. The accident version which by the way is sanctioned by the state is a joke. Evolution is just plain stupid. Life came from a sludge pond stuck by lightning? What is the sludge made up of? It could not be anything organic. I have seen what lightning does to life whether it is plant or animal it causes damage. Lets suppose that it did “create ” life. What did that first primitive life eat? Rock? After 4 billion years no more erf. Maybe they ate each other. Soon enough there is only one. What did it eat then. Maybe they ate themselves. Soon enough no more life. Ok, ok it just happened. Then my great…great grandpa, the dumbest fish in the ocean thought that he wanted out of the water. Never mind the facts that he could not move about, breathe or eat but somehow he found a mate. I’m pretty sure this was a female because this would be another dead end in the story for evolution. Somehow he finds the dumbest female in the ocean and they manage to mate. Survival of the fittest , one of the main tenants of evolution says these two just won the Darwin awards. Before Darwin, now that is pretty darn good. According to the theory, “if you don’t use it you lose it”. Why would there be a heart but no blood to pump? Or why would there be blood but no pump? They had to evolved separately. If they evolved separately what was their purpose? Without each other they are not used. Back to “if you don’t use it you lose it”. I find it rather odd that scientist have created “life” in the lab, scum but a yet to be born person is not life. Like I said all this is sanctioned by the state. That ought to be enough right there for any one to question it. To answer the question, Yes I believe in God. If you think that a god could not explain all, then you are worshiping only a god.
I do not “believe” (follow) in organized religion as I have not yet been able to find one that does not violate its OWN basic tenants.
For the vast majority of my adult life, I truly thought that we humans had replaced God with Science, this belief system tried very hard to destroy my health and mind.
Now, instead of better living through chemistry, I’m healthy, truly healthy, with better living through nature.
That can’t be a mistake, God made this world to take care of us.
So, now, I know how important God truly is.
My God, though, in comparison to the Christian, Jewish or Muslim God, actually believes in the words taught by his son, JC. Love God first, then your neighbors, everything else is just man subjugating and judging other men and JC sure as hell wasn’t tortured and killed on the cross so we continue to behave like the Romans and the Jews but kiss his ass instead.
‘Nuff said.
Love and light to all.
Yes
One of the best arguments that I’ve seen against the Darwinian theory that evolution is the sole creator of the complexity of life on earth is sleep. The vast majority of complex life on earth sleeps in one way or another: predators, prey, mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, etc. – all sleep. Therefore, according to the Darwinian theory there would have to be a very compelling physical benefit of sleeping or we would have evolved away from it eons ago. But the vast majority of Darwinians conveniently choose to ignore sleep completely. Those that don’t come up with lame explanations, like it helps the physical brain process the events that happened while we were awake. Really? We turn ourselves off for a significant period of time leaving ourselves open to predation just to process what happened during our waking hours and we did NOT manage to evolve the capability to do this processing while we were awake? Over billions of years?
Asking about belief in God is a trap, assumes that the Divine is personified (i.e. Theist belief system) cuts out a huge section of the world. Does a belief in the Divine without a God mean I’m an atheist?
kc – not trying to pick a fight, but religion and faith are two distinct subjects. Religion is the politicization of faith (leads to herd behavior, creation of insider/outsider classes).
Admin – good one 🙂
Answer to the question, not the article: No. The anthropomorphic god concept makes far less sense to me than that of the holographic cosmos.
Montefrio, then who or what, anthropomorphic or not, created the holograph?
cantbaretowatch at least gets the question right.
It is critical to separate religion from God from a conceptual basis, yet virtually no one does this. Accident vs. Purpose is the REAL question, as it is valid at every level of perception–it is there in our day to day lives and it is there in all the history and expanse of the Cosmos. Creation vs Evolution is staggeringly silly, looking at the tiniest fragment of existence. A subtly different question, but very much overlapping, is ENTIRELY rational or not.
An entirely rational Cosmos allows ZERO irrationality. In other words, everything was determined exactly at the instant of the big bang–it could therefore theoretically be calculated precision if all variables were included. This is physical determinism. Contrary (slightly) with a Christians view of predestination–in which God created everything according to His purpose, is omnipotent and omniscient, therefore everything was known when He laid the foundations of the Earth (Cosmos) so everything MUST thereafter unfold according to His divine will.
Physics is real, the Cosmos is vast and Ancient beyond all comprehension…as opposed to cantbaretowatch I COULD see an evolutionary process occurring despite ridiculously long odds, simply because there are so many chances. With one major caveat–and Stephen Hawking stresses they must be assumed–the Fundamental Forces. Physicist can measure the effects of these forces, but cannot say why they exist. Lawrence Krauss dismissively says “how is why.” Which is fine if that is enough for him, but it is not enough for me. The Fundamental Forces are the most basic building block of existence and they are a mystery. Max Planck put it this way:
“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together.”
As an aside, I find it remarkable how closely that quote parallels this one:
“Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.” – John 1:3
I have bogged down, so I will try to get to the real meat:
We cannot begin to understand the Cosmos from a rational standpoint and we cannot begin to understand even the concept of God. What we CAN do is look at our lives. I find, and I think that nearly everyone would agree, that the noblest aspects of mankind are IRRATIONAL, completely counter-Darwinian. Compassion, Forgiveness, Sacrifice, Art, etc. These things do nothing for our survival as individuals and as a species, yet they are perhaps the only things that give us any meaning. I hold that whether these things are the whisperings of our Creator on some imperceptible (spiritual) wavelength or they are simply bi-products of a long chain of evolutionary accidents doesn’t matter (at least not to the point of anger, certainly not centuries of rage and violence as they have done). These irrational human behaviors are what make our time here enjoyable and meaningful.
One other quick word to end my long-winded ravings:
We live for a mere instant as a infinitesimal part of tiny speck in a immense Cosmos…it is natural to fear. But, however we acquired it we have WILL. We can change or thoughts and our perceptions. Regardless of all else I believe:
Love is always, and in all ways, superior to fear.
Forgiveness is always, and in all ways, superior to retribution.
“Life came from a sludge pond stuck by lightning? What is the sludge made up of? It could not be anything organic. …Lets suppose that it did “create ” life. What did that first primitive life eat? Rock?” —– cantbaretowatch
Very good question.
An equally good question, I believe, is how did that FIRST blob of life REPLICATE right off the bat? Because even if it could eat “rock”, unless it was able to immediately replicate itself, than “life on earth” would have ceased as quickly as it started. And replication is a very complex thing — even the so-called simple division that amoeba’s do.
Araven: My answer to that is that the “holograph” (an inadequate but convenient term) wasn’t “created”; it simply IS. It’s a difficult concept to wrap the mind around, given the human condition and its perceptual limitations, but when one learns to quiet the chattering mind, it becomes easier to do so. I firmly believe that ALL is energy in different states and that there is a simultaneity between an individuated consciousness and IS. In other words, each of us is an individual with a transitory nature but simultaneously we are the One Mind (a timeless and spaceless energy) that is all there is.
So the holograph that is what we perceive as reality is and always has been part of the universal consciousness rather than created by the universal consciousness? Interesting. I do have a quibble with your description in that I’d put more emphasis on consciousness, since I see energy as part of the holograph and the universal consciousness as the basis of the holograph and everything else.
presented without comment
Well, a power outage killed my comment, but I’ll try again.
I used the “hologram/holograph” image because each part also contains the whole. To my way of thinking, energy and the universal consciousness are synonymous. Individuated entities are energy states that arise and subside but are neither created nor destroyed: they simply transform from one state to another, each and all simultaneously being the One Mind, the All, whatever you wish to call pure Being. There is no “everything else”; there is only IS. When the metaphorical scales fall from our metaphorical eyes, the reflexive consciousness becomes still and all is “perceived” simultaneously.
The 1972 movie “Solaris” (NOT the US remake!) dances around this theme a bit with its “sentient ocean” planet, though my belief is that the One Mind is neither sentient nor self-aware: it simply IS.
I believe in bacon. I sometimes believe in sausage, but the main thing is bacon. Mmmmmm-yummy bacon…so salty, so sweet, so delicate.
DRUD,
The infinite universes hypothesis plus the anthropomorphic principle does at least provide an answer to the supposed “fine tuning” of the physical constants…
Smashing things guts out usually reveals what on the inside, I can see the parts but dont necessarily know how they fit or their function, Life sometimes teaches us by smashing our guts out and then we put the pieces back together or sometimes others help but some times your all alone and there is no one around to help and you can’t figure it out on your own ! I think alot of us meet God then, when he puts us back together with unseen hands and lets us see his miraculous works in our personal lives! Pond scum or not!
Pagan – sure. But both are entirely speculative. I don’t deny them. How can I? I don’t offer the Fundamental Forces as proof of God or Purpose or anything. I simply say that the construct of the Cosmos is not knowable. We must deal with what we can know. That said, it is fun to speculate and hear other’s do so.
I recently read a short story (Cobra Trap, which the final Modesty Blaise story) where one character is describing an NDE. He used the phrase “I could hear the song the stars sing.” Just reading that gave me a serious shudder that i can’t quite explain.
Same kind of thing when I read Stephen King’s The Gunslinger (the last part of the first book)–which would be an Infinite Universes model to be sure,
My answers is
NUTS
Anonymous is correct. Without God nothing makes sense especially Stucky. I mean without God how does one explain him ?
Drud: ” I simply say that the construct of the Cosmos is not knowable. We must deal with what we can know. ”
“Knowable” how? Cognitively or Cognitively, no, we cannot “know” it in its totality. But intuitionally/experientially? You like to read: get “The Three Pillars of Zen” and check out the satori experience of Mrs. D.K,”Six Years Later”, too long to cite here. It’s a splendid description of the experience of that kind of “knowing”. Had it myself and thanks to that experience I have no further questions. Try it, you’ll like it!
“So religion to government has always been just a tool to manipulate the people. They cannot advocate nor actually believe in any God and then do what they do. You do not try to end democracy to retain power and then pretend you believe in a higher power.”
Which is what makes the GOP and its’ members such Bible-thumping, pandering to the pulpit hypocrites.
I believe in God,Most High.His angels.Each person at the time of conception has a guardian angel until the time of his or her passing. These beings can not stop or interfere with free will.I also strongly believe in Karma a balance, a reckoning to be made accountable if not in this life the next.I pray to God and also thank my angels,and do not hesitate to ask for their help I do also believe we must constantly guard our souls.
Iska Waran says: If you think the existence of God depends on the behavior of men, and if de facto atheists run the world with duplicitousness, then arguably that’s evidence for God – that the biggest assholes are actually atheists.
What I don’t believe in are assholes. They don’t exist, there are jerks and pricks and I have made personal acquaintance of those but, real assholes? Although there is evidence aplenty that they might exist: the Patriot Act, Taxes, bank fees…
No, I have never seen one, so it’s hard to believe assholes exist and the examples above are just circumstantial evidence.
All religions are faith based belief systems. I am an INTJ (T=91%) so I don’t function very well on the feelings side of my brain. I approach everything with logic.
Talk to each of the world’s religions and what they will all tell you is that their religion is 100% correct and all others are to some degree or even 100% wrong. Right off the bat it’s obvious something is wrong with that. Logically they can’t all be right and at best only – one – can be 100% right. Or the other possibility is that they are all wrong or to some degree less than correct. And that is what I believe– that no one religion has it 100% right. Many religions may have something of value and one may well be more accurate than all the rest.
So is there a God?
Anyone that states there is or isn’t a God is making a statement of belief not known fact. Any proof they may site will have some segment hinging on belief.
So what do I believe? Well there you go I have a problem with that word; I prefer to state what I know.
The more you learn, the more you learn how little you know in relation to the vast body of knowledge that is still unknown. One of my favorite sayings is “you/they don’t know what you/they don’t know”. As an example we think we can see everything around us but in reality we only see a very small segment of the energy spectrum. There is more there than we can see.
What I do know is that I have witnessed things that defy all logic. What I know from that is that there is something(s) that do exists that we know nothing about. Given that there is so much that exists that we know nothing about, it is entirely possible that there is a God.
And that is what I know.
ASIG says:
All religions are faith based belief systems [which is why they are called religion and not ‘science’]. I am an INTJ [same as everybody else here] (T=91%) so I don’t function very well on the feelings side of my brain [or the thinking part of my heart]. I approach everything with logic [as you can see].
Talk to each of the world’s religions [really, they speak] and what they will all tell you is that their religion [religions do have religion, after all] is 100% correct and all others are to some degree or even 100% wrong. Right off the bat it’s obvious something is wrong with that [what’s up with that?]. Logically they can’t all be right and at best only – one – can be 100% right [the religion known as ASIG says so]. Or the other possibility is that they are all wrong or to some degree less than correct [did I already say that?, follow me here, folks]. And that is what I believe– that no one religion has it 100% right [I told you ASIG was the one true religion]. Many religions may have something of value and one may well be more accurate than all the rest [you’ll have to trust me on that].
[Having proved the incontestability of my testimony, I’m ready to tackle the bigger question:] So is there a God?
Anyone that states there is or isn’t a God is making a statement of belief[,] not known fact. Any proof they may site [sic] will have some segment hinging [?] on belief. [it’s a 50/50 proposition, a little bit of proof and a little bit of faith, which won’t please God or the devil but, hey, it’s a compromise]
So what do I believe? Well there you go I have a problem with that word; I prefer to state what I know [this won’t take long, trust me].
The more you learn, the more you learn how little you know in relation to the vast body of knowledge that is still unknown [read that over a few times slowly, it’s deep, I know]. One of my favorite sayings is “you/they don’t know what you/they don’t know” [consequently, I am the life of the party at the local McDonalds]. As an example[,] we think we can see everything around us but in reality we only see a very small segment of the energy spectrum [you don’t see sound or heat]. There is more there than we can see [even with our five senses and a spectrum analyzer].
What I do know is that I have witnessed things that defy all logic [Trump running for president is one]. What I know from that is that there is (are) some thing(s) that do exists that we know nothing about. [Therefore] Given that there is so much that exists that we know nothing about [trust me on this, just because you never saw your parents doing the horizontal mambo doesn’t mean they didn’t], it is entirely possible that there is a God [I rest my case].
And that is what I know [stick that in your pipe and smoke it].
EC- If you are done niggling, which was interesting in a strange sort of way, I think I can provide the answer you seek. God= frequency and vibrations.
Humans are the highest vibrational components on the planet. God is in us and all things and everywhere at all times.
Bea, your wrong. I have a couple of points on that:
1. Your not supposed to make any graven images to bow down to (see note 2).
2. You can’t imagine the nature, substance or appearance of the supreme being.
3. Anything man can form or shape or fashion would be his own golden calf and not the creator.
4. the supreme being is not immanent in all things created or creatures.
5. neither does the creator live in houses built by men.
6. all man’s good works are as filthy rags to the lord.
7. therefore, religion is a waste of time.
8. true religion is brotherly love
9. religion is an attempt to appease the creator.
10. worship is an attempt to reach the lord.
11. the lord does not hear evil people.
12. he who curses wakes the leviathan; meaning, the devil hears evil people.
13. people should stop repeating the bullshit that all wars are caused by religion.
14. wars are caused by greedy fucks, let’s get it straight.
EC- I actually agree with a lot of your points. In masonic terms the construct was designed (created) by the Grand Architect, if you want to call that God it’s ok by me. If you listen to religious teachings including eastern religions you would come to the conclusion that the construct encompasses everything. The construct is basically vibration and frequency. Humans vibrate at a higher level than does a sofa so when you sit down on the sofa you don’t meld into the sofa, you simply sit on top of the object, for an example. High vibrational creatures rot upon death, humans being the quickest to rot as they are the highest vibrational entities in the construct. Rocks being the lowest vibrational category don’t rot but can be worn away by the elements.
You can’t seem to separate yourself from religion, which is fine but makes it harder to see the reality of things. Good and evil make participation more challenging. I have to go out today but hope to continue this with you this evening. Thanks for the input.
I got two thumbs down by some god deniers, folks who are totally clueless about birth, death and decay. To them, the world has always existed in much the same way it was in the 1950’s. The world was in a perfect state then and gradually declined to where we are now.
ASIGism is correct when it states that we can only know reality partially. We live in the flesh and are restricted to the limitations of our five senses. But the brain is not restricted by the physical world, as you stated, love transcends the boundaries of time and space.
As Stucky pointed out, our brain creates much of our reality when it ‘melds’ basic colors to come up with the rest of the palette. Folks whose brain has the capacity for imagineering a greater range of colors or sounds are the artists in our midst. As flash pointed out, folks whose brain has the capacity for imagineering a greater range of human motivations or impulses are the women in our midst.
@ASIG
— “I approach everything with logic.”
You most certainly have emotional reactions to your own logic.
I would say Mr Spock was an ASIGist. But then, Mr Spock was modeled after the writer’s old boss; a cop.
EC, my thumbs down was because you’re confusing god and religion. Your concept of god is highly colored by your religion.
I was trying to avoid offending pagans by not using the word god. I substituted the idea of a creator but even that is offensive to folks who believe they sprang from the nothing fully formed, like a fucking smartphone.
My concept is the closest I can get to the truth. Bea promised us a treatise on Masonic beliefs. More than likely his concepts will be colored by his religion. You can bet on it.